9/8/23 12:42 PM

"beat up by the dynamic Trio"

Too predictable I guess.. ;)

9/8/23 1:25 PM

After the way Remco and the cycling press dissed and ignored Sepp, I thought this was an especially fitting result. Barring disaster, he's going to win the Vuelta and even if he doesn't, his career has taken a huge leap forward. JV looks to win regardless, unless all three leaders are taken out by a crash or COVID. It will be a historic victory.

It's amazing to see a team that can field three true GT contenders, and even more so that Sepp has done this after riding both the Giro and the Tour! That said, I hope this doesn't mean that we'll return to the boring days of Team Sky, where nobody can really compete with them. I find the JV leaders to be more interesting, as they have very different personalities, their human sides are on full display, and they don't ride like robots. It was pretty cool that ultimately, all three of them attacked and gained time on the rest of the field.

A bonus is that we now have an American roadie to get excited about again. I'm lovin' it!

The "next gen" riders that are coming up are exciting, too. It bodes well for the future of the sport.

9/8/23 1:28 PM

WatchingSepp Kuss's performance in the Tour de France, I was wondering what he can do if he was left to ride for himself. I think he's proving his abilities once again. What will Jumbo Visma do for the rest of the race? And will these three still be on the same team together next year?

9/8/23 2:40 PM

" I find the JV leaders to be more interesting, as they have very different personalities, their human sides are on full display, and they don't ride like robots. "

I had not put my finger on it... until I read the way you worded that. Thanks. ;)


" A bonus is that we now have an American roadie to get excited about again. I'm lovin' it! "

Word!

As much as I hate to bring the Lance card into. It's like I felt before he managed to obliterate the pride and sentiment I had for an "American roadie to get excited about".

9/8/23 7:31 PM

Robotic is actually a word I've used to describe vingegaard, at least in the Tour. But I really enjoy Kuss' authenticity, though. His smile crossing the line today was ebilullient and almost innocent. He comes across as a country kid on his first trip to the big city.

The tactical perfection of today's finishing climb was something to see, though. I have no doubt this was exactly the result, stage and gc, that JV planned from before the start.

9/8/23 8:11 PM

JV probably shouldna hadda oughtta gone that deep I am thinking....

9/9/23 4:12 AM

Really didn't see a lot of Roglic on the footage but Kuss looked absolutely fine at the finish. Vingegaard was definitely winded but also seemed well within himself at the end. I'm not sure they went deep enough to make a mark.

Still not heard what happened with Remco other than a bad day. But what an epic bad day.

9/9/23 2:00 PM

Remco looked like he felt semi redeemed. But also like he 1/2 expected to have a repeat day.

Observing all these 'white jersey' kids riding mostly like well seasoned pros is a bit scary.

______
Watching today's stage, Elaine sez nothing more dangerous that a rider that's very pissed off at himself. LOL

__________
Vingo=freak

9/13/23 11:31 AM

I of course am quite prejudice for an American rider.

But I gotta say Primos interview post stage today has me thinking Sepp will be on a different team soon.

I get you should race, simply put. But Sepp shouldn't have to race his teammates at this point. Not like GC had been put in Jeopardy. For team or these 3 riders...

Although for Primos [granted] grabbing more time as with that deficit, who knows if a crash or illness takes out Vingo or Sepp, etc...

Argh, torn, LOL

I bet that Red jersey will feel differently for the remainder of the race.

Probably really a case of what the sponsors are barking into the DS ears. Make Sepp a bigger expense, or make your already expensive riders help make more....

Probably nice to make money, as nice as write off are. ;)

Side note: Evenepoel almost got dropped by no one stepping up to the podium. Freaking animal!

9/13/23 1:00 PM

Not seen the interview yet, just watched the finish. Yes, it's still a race and racers gona race. I almost never get emotionally involved with who wins, I like the drama but don't actually care who's on the podium, but I'll be pissed if one of his teammates take red from Sepp. He has helped them both so much over the years, I've never seen a rider actually and legitimately deserve to win like I feel Sepp does. His nationality matters nothing to me, though.

[EDIT] Just saw it. Roglic contradicted himself over and over. Kind of grossed out. I get that it's a race and supporting someone else is hard when you have your own ambitions but all Sepp has ever done is support the team leaders. Just yuck.

And no one is talking about Jonas who went along for the ride and actually had the most to gain. He's already won the biggest race in the world twice...he can't support the guy who literally made that possible? Screw them both.

9/13/23 2:23 PM

And a nice b-day present as well...

9/13/23 4:58 PM

quote:

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And a nice b-day present as well...

---

9/14/23 9:40 AM

Currently watching the final climb psychically sending threatening thoughts to Roglic, LOL

[EDIT] Well, it looks like the public outcry has had an impact. They supported their team leader as teammates should. Sepp's smile at the finish said it all.

9/14/23 4:52 PM

Someone figured out the publuc relations nightmare upon the team.

I was more pissed thinking about it today in truth.

Still, Jumblow Visma fuk you. Almost fixed it. Support your race leader you dumb fux!

9/15/23 10:59 AM

yeah, they clearly were doing PR mgmt vs heartfelt support, Roglic heavily implied that with some of his comments

9/15/23 12:51 PM

https://youtu.be/EMDNsg4kaOI?si=wKHWk0Fs955d-Xsz

My take aways:
Close friends, my ars. And a great humanitarian?

Re: rumors team switch. Hearing that response makes me think rumors hold water. ;)


My question might be: Is the damage I perceive Primoz may have done to himself mostly because he dissed a fellow citizen. Or is that just a magnitude amplifier.


PaceLine Post I thought I'd copy to this thread:

quote:

---

This season will be remembered as the year in which Jumbo-Visma cemented themselves as modern cycling’s most complete team. But en route to a historic triumph, they might have also destroyed the bedrock of their own foundations and irreparably damaged team morale through questionable decisions. The collateral damage of attacking Kuss in the past two days might just continue to mount. It’s a moment that cycling will never forget and one that could, perhaps, have huge consequences for the future formation of Jumbo-Visma.

---

9/15/23 4:37 PM

Agreed. As I said before, I generally don't care who wins what I just love the excitement. But now I'm hoping Pog has better luck before the Tour next year and that UAE can get him some better support and that he takes yellow away from JV...that abbreviation works for both man and team I just realized :D

9/16/23 6:16 AM

I was rooting for Sepp and was somewhat dismayed when the team went for two stages without supporting him, but I don't think I was as outraged as many were.

Going into the grand tour, I honestly think the team management probably only talked about the GC possibilities beforehand amongst Vingo and Roglic. GC riders have egos and I think Primoz fully expected to be given his shot to win the Vuelta (for the fourth time).

Then, they had that stage with the 41 rider breakaway that included Kuss, Van Barle, Tratnik, and Atilla (what parent names their kid Atilla?😧). If Roglič or Vingo had gone in the break, then Evenpoel, Mas, Vlasov, and the UAE boys would've come also, and the break would not have gone. Van Barle and Tratnik buried themselves in that stage while Sepp was able to sit in the middle of the break and save his energies and ultimately, ride away from the rest of the breakaway riders. JV really did not expect Sepp to be in the lead or to hold it in the time trial and following stages.

Then, management stayed quiet to see how it would play out. I don't think they expected the big backlash from the cycling community, especially from the Euro media.

The old model for winning a grand tour was to designate ONE top GC rider and then surround him with two or three elite climbers, one all-around rider, and two or three big rolleurs to go onto the front and limit breakaways. The model was executed to perfection by the old USPS/Discovery and the early Sky teams.

Sky was very successful when Bradley Wiggins and then Chris Froome was the designated top GC guy and the rest of the team riders are dedicated to supporting the top guy. However, lneos seemingly went into the dumper when they changed to the strategy of coming to a grand tour with two or three top GC candidates. Think riders like Gerraint Thomas, Richard Carapaz, Theo Gaganhart, Egan Bernal on the same team? Then, none of the top riders want to work for any of the other top guys and you get factions within the team along with some dissension.

The old model involved having one queen bee and seven worker bees designated to support the queen. Having multiple queen bees within the colony just has not worked well in practice and JV should've expected that.

9/16/23 10:10 AM

Does the recovery of the season award go to Remco Evenepoel, or what?


BTW, this thread with initial 'Spoilers' going in has been one of our more betterer during race threads to date maybe. ;)

9/16/23 4:16 PM

He just had a bad day, we've all had them. It's just more epic when you're a contender in a grand tour.

The thing I really noticed about Remco in all this is that he's uber competitive but maybe not in a healthy way. If you look at Pogacer he just loves riding his bike, as the commentators have said many times. He just seems happy to be spinning pedals whether he wins or not. Remco's body language and expression after today's race, which was an epic length and amount of climbing, said that we was more than simply disappointed in not winning, he was angry. I've been that guy, at a much much lower level of racing of course, and it's not fun or healthy. That drive to always win takes the joy out of it. He gets paid to win but, for example, not being able to accept today's performance for what it was, bloody amazing, could lead to psychological burn out.

Also, could someone please tell us exactly how to say his last name? At last count there are 17 different pronunciations bouncing around.

9/16/23 6:00 PM

Eb in eh pool? But Ev not eb??


Want...

9/17/23 6:09 AM

There was talk among the Peacock announcers that maybe Roglic would move to another team.

Personally, I would love to see PR go to a team that had enough money to surround him with some quality support riders.

I would be licking my chops to watch a hotly contested 2024 TdF with GC contenders (on different teams) including Vingo, Pog, Roglic, and Evenepoel (who I think is learning valuable lessons this Fall about how far he can push his body and mind), as well as the likes of Mas, Ayuso/Almeida, Hindley, etc, barking at their heels.

Could make for more exciting and competitive tours and grand tours.

9/17/23 7:52 AM

Agree with Lee, 2024 could be fascinating. Another element is that Pog and Remco, being preeminent one day riders, need to figure out how to balance that with tour preparation. I don’t have the answer….:)

9/17/23 11:08 AM

I saw some scuttlebutt Movistar is courting Primoz.

I totally agree, for next season for us fans.

Imagine if you will, 'M' going back to queen bee/drone team tactics. Not sure how Enrik M would feel about this. But that team with a Primoz?

I'd love to see a JV VS Mov pedal pissing contest all 2024. ;)

And Primoz @ 33 needs to get his contract into Froome/Sagan $ territory sooner than later. Cause later never comes...

9/18/23 8:44 AM

I am also curious what the general consensus is among TTF old timers regarding Team Ethics. And where this may be headed if it is changing.

I speak to the JV 3x podium, and more specifically the 'order' and the PR/JV attack of a team mates/Sepp's Red jersey. Seem like public outrage won that day in this case...