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Check your Patch Kit...
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Andy M-S
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3266
Location: Hamden (greater New Haven) CT

8/8/21 10:12 AM

Check your Patch Kit...

I don't get many flats these days. Pretty much only when it rains, and so the last flat I had was about 18 months back.

Today, I was on my way home from mt favorite bookstore/coffee shop when a bit of flint made its way through my rear tire and I needed to stop and fix things.

It had been raining, but had stopped; there was a nice place to put down my panniers, and there was even a fence nearby that I could use to support the bike while I worked (something I've learned with fenders--it pays to be able to hook a pedal into something to keep the bike supported).

So I popped out the wheel, pulled out the old tube, blew up the spare one a little, stuffed it in and started to inflate it and--yep. Torn at the valve stem. My spare tube, after about 18 months in a seat bag, was DOA.

OK, well, then I can patch the other tube and be on my way. Except that the vulcanizing fluid in my kit (hereinafter "glue") was dry. OK, I like to think of myself as prepared, so I had secreted a couple of spare patch kits in another bag. Three tubes of glue between them and--every fscking one was dry.

So I walked a mile and a half mile home and <i>every</I> stinking tube of glue in my workshop was useless. Fortunately I had a few brand-new tubes, so I was back in business.

This could have been much worse. I could have been 20 miles from home instead of coming back from a coffee/bookstore run. But for those who still use tubes (and still patch them) let this serve as a warning...

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 18166
Location: PDX

8/8/21 10:25 AM

101, no.

Not that we forget or get complacent at all. ;)

I am superstitious, and leaving on a ride in a few. So I will edit on return. Don't wanna ride on Murphy St. ;)

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Kramer
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 115
Location: Richmond, VA

8/8/21 4:31 PM

Same with tubeless sealant

It's set and forget until its not......

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 18166
Location: PDX

8/8/21 4:40 PM

I was going to say I don't push mileage on tires to get most use. So I have newer tires usually, flat less this way. And mostly do tubes still for longer rides/bikes.

So far last and this year VVG on flats.

Just got in a 50 miler, Not done 50 miles since last May. Avoiding those routes due to population density and covid. So mostly beem doing the hilld south east of house area. Hill rides are usually 25-35 miles for my fat ars. Roads are way cleaner out in the boonies too!

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LeeW
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 397
Location: near Baltimore, MD

8/9/21 5:40 AM

I abandoned carrying a traditional patch kit in my under-saddle bag quite a few years back because of the dried-up glue issue you mention. I now carry a pack of the Park super patches as a backup... the translucent ones with the self adhesive and the peel off backing that come in an accordian-style foldup. Yeah, the product is not the greatest solution or the most reliable for holding air long-term, but the package is extremely small (size of a 1/4" thick standard-size postage stamp) and one or two patches will let you ride home about 99.99% of the time.

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Andy M-S
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3266
Location: Hamden (greater New Haven) CT

8/9/21 7:12 AM

code:
I now carry a pack of the Park super patches as a backup... the translucent ones with the self adhesive and the peel off backing that come in an accordian-style foldup.



I'm considering this. Back in the days when I ran skinnier tires at higher pressures, I looked on these things with scorn, but I'm running 80 PSI max these days, so they may offer a solution.

Two questions that you may have some experience with--

1. How long do they last in the package?
2. How difficult are they to remove (so that I can install a "proper" Rema patch)?

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LeeW
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 397
Location: near Baltimore, MD

8/9/21 8:33 AM

Good questions, Andy.

Hmmm. I've had the same Park kit in my saddle bag for about 5-6 years now and they still seem to be sticky and functional. I just went downstairs and peeled the backing off one to check.

I don't think I've ever tried to peel one off an emergency repair and patch the puncture with a more conventional patch, so I can't answer that question. I really don't use them all that often since I carry a spare tube and don't have that many flats (sound of wood being knock on). I've always just continued to ride the Park patched tube while making sure the spare tube in the saddlebag was fresh and new.

I had the same experience as you back around 2006 or 2007 where I blew through my spare tube on a longer solo ride and the glue from my patch kit was solidified and I had to bum a tube off a rider who was passing by a short time later who asked if I was alright. I switched to the Park patches and although I've only used them a handful of times, haven't been "stranded" by bad glue since then.

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Andy M-S
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3266
Location: Hamden (greater New Haven) CT

8/9/21 9:47 AM

Thanks!

Thanks for the answers, Lee.

I'm a traditionalist--I love the smell of vulcanizing glue in the morning. Smells like victory.

But from now on, I will (at least) make sure that the tube in my seatbag is NEW.

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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2734
Location: hillbilly heaven

8/9/21 3:06 PM

I gave up on glue decades ago after my old glue wouldnt work and i bought new glue and it didnt work. When park introduced the glueless patches i bought those and have been well served by them.

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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 3117
Location: Midland, MI

8/9/21 4:17 PM

Shriveled

Dried up tubes of cement are a very old issue. I used to buy the glue in those little tubes and had many dry out in the sitting n my basement. I use rubber cement in a can and I can rejuvenate the solvent by adding fresh when the stuff gets too thick. I have been using the Park patches as a "second spare tube alternative" since I switched to clinchers in 1998. They seem to last forever in the seat pack. They are easy to remove from the tube when you get home, which I do. There are folks who swear that they are just as permanent as a glued patch, but I'm not in that group.

On a related issue, we had a wet spring and the last flat I had I noticed that unscrewing the hose on my Lezyne pump was fairly hard. What I didn't do was put two and two together that the aluminum threads were corroding. Saturday somebody else had a flat and blew through their CO2 cartridges so I offered my pump. Except I couldn't unscrew the hose, and neither could anyone else who tried. If I had been on my own with a flat I would have been left on the side of the road. I got home, got out the pliers and removed the hose and greased the threads. Superstitiously, today I tested the pump just to be sure the threads were still free. I completely tear down my bike every winter and grease every thread. I just never thought to grease the pump hose threads. Be prepared!

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Andy M-S
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3266
Location: Hamden (greater New Haven) CT

8/9/21 7:06 PM

Frame Pump

That's why I always have a solid frame pump. In something like 45 years of riding bikes with high-pressure tires, no Zefal hP or hPX has ever failed me. No hoses for me!

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 18166
Location: PDX

8/9/21 8:48 PM

When I built up the EP and posted the inaugural ride pic, I got all kinds of shit for the full frame pump, a blackburn. Nonsense, I ride to ride and get back rolling after a flat with a full frame pump when they fit on a frame..


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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 3117
Location: Midland, MI

8/11/21 1:09 PM

Frame pump


quote:
no Zefal hP or hPX has ever failed me. No hoses for me!


I would absolutely love it if Silca still made their frame-fit pumps. Put a Campy head on that and you've got the best thing going. My Lezyne Road Drive is about all I could find when I put together this bike in 2014 - Lynseky wanted a bunch of money to add a pump peg.

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Andy M-S
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3266
Location: Hamden (greater New Haven) CT

8/11/21 6:46 PM

Silca

Kerry--

many years ago I had a plastic Silca, bought because it matched my Bianchi of the time. The first time I tried to use it (fortunately not out on the road) it exploded into fragments. Your mileage may differ considerably, but that experience cured me of trying anything but Zefal.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6545
Location: Maine

8/12/21 3:45 PM

Silca

Andy, itís kind of a learned skill to keep your hand behind the pump to control the occasional backfire, but in my experience it can be controlled.

I agree with Kerry that itís a pain to fit a frame fit pump on most modern bikes so I gave it up. I carry CO2 cartridges which I find more reliable and easier than any pump. A bit wasteful, but I use very few. I carry a backup mini pump (I have several) which work with more or less aggravation. And on long rides I carry 2 tubes. I have a patch kit which probably has dried glue, and I have tried glueless patches (not Park I think) with little success, but basically I never actually use them.

2 stories. I rode the Death Ride about 20 years ago, didnít take CO2 because I didnít think you could fly with them. I had a flat on the first major descent. Swapped the tube and went to pump up with my mini pump. I didnít realize that my spare tube had a relatively short stem which didnít allow the pump to seal, and I couldnít get any air in the tire. I tried and tried, and thought ďOK, I flew across the country to do this ride, and Iím not going to be able to finish because I canít pump up a flat?Ē Then, in a fit of desperation, I jammed the pump handle as hard as I could and it sealed, I was able to pump up the tire, and had a great ride. I think even if it havenít worked someone would have stopped to help me (one guy offered early in the process but I declined).

Another story is that I once went on a group ride including Ben Serotta, he had a flat and couldnít get his mini pump to work, and had to borrow one. So itís not just dweebs like me.

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Andy M-S
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3266
Location: Hamden (greater New Haven) CT

8/13/21 9:09 AM

Many Years Ago

I've told this story here before, likely more than once, so skip if you've read it.

In the early 2000s I went on a combination ride/race called the Catfish 50 in Trempealeau, Wisconsin.

About 45 miles in, I came across a gentlemen sitting dejectedly by the side of the road with what looked to be a very nice-for-the-time Ti bike. He had carried two tubes and a brace of CO2 cartridges but had (for some reason) had one of the cartridges fail on his first flat, and he was now on his second. Since I was riding and wasn't racing, I offered the hPX and then he told me to "hop on and draft" and towed me the rest of the way.

I have to say that I probably had my best average speed that day.

I know that Silcas can be controlled, but the hPX is just such a well-built piece of equipment!

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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 3117
Location: Midland, MI

8/13/21 9:12 AM

Short one


quote:
didnít realize that my spare tube had a relatively short stem which didnít allow the pump to seal


Can't say this happens "all the time" but on at least two rides I've been on a guy with a deep section rim had a flat and a spare tube with "the next size shorter" than what he needed valve stem. In one case we used a Park patch and in the other case we we're too far from somebody's house so they did a "pump and ride" with the slow leak to get there. This, of course, after going through the entire tube replacement process before discovering the stem was too short and then putting the old tube back in. It was a windy day and the leak was slow so there was no way we could find the hole to put a Park patch on it. Be prepared!

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Nick Payne
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 2529
Location: Canberra, Australia

8/13/21 9:25 PM


quote:
When I built up the EP and posted the inaugural ride pic, I got all kinds of shit for the full frame pump, a blackburn.

I've lost count of the number of times I've been out on group training rides, and someone gets a puncture, only has one of the six inch long pretend pocket pumps, and wants to borrow my full frame pump to complete the repair...

For my last bike I lashed out and bought one of the Silca Impero Ultimate frame pumps. It doesn't do the job any better than a Zefal or Topeak Masterblaster, but it looks nice - and is heavy enough to do double duty as a cudgel in a fight.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6545
Location: Maine

8/14/21 7:03 AM

Damn!

This makes me want to get an Impero, even though I have absolutely no need for one.

Well, thatís never stopped me beforeÖ..

Think I could make it work on all my bikes.

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Andy M-S
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3266
Location: Hamden (greater New Haven) CT

8/14/21 8:27 AM

Impero

It's sure pretty, but I'm not certain it's that much prettier than a Zefal.

My frame does have a pump peg, but when I built it up the first time, I used DT shifters, and didn't want the pump getting in the way. Since there was adequate space between the seat tube and fender (yes, I know) I bought a slightly shorter pump (a model 3, I think) put a Campy bolt-on peg on the back of the seat tube, and the pump's wings sit just after of the BB cluster.

Plus, of course, my bike is Campagnolo-equipped.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 18166
Location: PDX

8/14/21 9:28 AM

I have an old Impero in chrome. It must be the longest as it has only fit shinny tube bike like the 85 Nago. Too long for the EP in the above pic unless it in at the top ST/TT junction at the rear and DT/HT junction at the front. The Blackburn on the EP/pic works a little better, but the Impero is probably 25+ years old. But still works...


Dan, you know they make a Ti one right? I want one if anyone wins the lottery and buys one for each/all the old members here. [no old member jokes please]


https://22bicycles.com/products/titanium-bodied-silca-impero-frame-pump

The fade ano is only $425.00


Here is a pic of a custom ano [i think]

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 18166
Location: PDX

8/14/21 11:27 AM

I bought Elaine a Quilting/embroidery Tula Pink Bernina sewing package for her b-day 2019.

I just suggested my next b-day present to her. ;)

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6545
Location: Maine

8/14/21 1:30 PM

D/p

Nm

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6545
Location: Maine

8/15/21 9:46 AM

Didnít know about ti pump

But I think my $425 will go elsewhereÖ..Considering I can barely remember the last time I fixed a flat roadside, and Iíd use CO2 in the first instance anyway. I think there are lots fewer flats with wider, lower pressure tires.

Iím pretty much over the frame pump thing.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 18166
Location: PDX

8/15/21 11:04 AM

I am trying t decide which would feel more terrible.

1) a puncture on a 1st ride on a brand new tubular
2) the sound of that pump rolling across the road if it came off. ;)


I'd seat belt/tether it like I do my Garmin Varia, an extra life line connection to the frame in case. you can see the red removable wire tie in my last EP pic.

I use velcro straps on the full frame pumps and a little foam as needed anyway. Abates rattles so I can hear myself suffer without those distractions...

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