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Tubulars, trip back to the dark side complete...
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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17849
Location: Portland, OR

7/2/20 10:09 PM

Tubulars, trip back to the dark side complete...

30mm Challenge Tubeless tubulars glued and ready for use tomorrow.


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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2677
Location: hillbilly heaven

7/3/20 4:38 PM

I have wheel and tire envy.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17849
Location: Portland, OR

7/3/20 5:44 PM

Too bad I roasted my quads yesterday. Got like 6-7 miles on the Stradas @65 psi and came back to let my legs recover.

But in my cycling life, no road bike/tires approach these in the glide dept.
Not just cush, but blips over everthing. And being so round, turn initiation is instantaneous.

Now I wanna try some tubulars on my Look 585 for sheits and giggles.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4674
Location: Nashua, NH

7/4/20 8:48 AM

Those definitely won't fit your Look. Mine doesn't have much room to spare with 25mm clinchers.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6427
Location: Maine

7/4/20 10:27 AM

Conflicted

Half of me wants to say “that’s really stupid” and the other half wants to try the Rene Herse FMB 30 mm silks. But since I’d need whole new wheels, and the Stampede Pass are so good, I probably won’t.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17849
Location: Portland, OR

7/4/20 1:03 PM

Dan seeded me on the 585/tubulars. And now that he is back in the 585 club I expect the infection to follow suite full circle back on him for suggesting it.

I did not mean the 30s on the Look. First it does not need that fat. IMO, tubeless on road feel 1 size bigger, tubular 2 sizes bigger. Look 585, everything feel two sizes bigger rolling.

I bought some White Ind 11s T11 wheels with Major Toms and PDX sewups, inbound. My plan was to use my C2 24/28h Belgium gathering dust on the wall here to convert to clincher.

But may get a few Yellow Jersey 3 for $50.00 Clement factory tires and play until I flat a few time and tire [ahem] of it before the C2 go on and the PDX and rim go on Craigslist for CX season...


#OldCyclistBored&FoolHearted


Not to mention it might be rewarding to roll the T11 sewups on the SLX Nago, the 753 Custom and even the Ti Super for comparative fun.

If these 30mm were not TA disc wheels I'd be rolling them in trials on a lot of my bikes. Nago and 753 frame fits 30s too!

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Nick Payne
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 2487
Location: Canberra, Australia

7/8/20 12:08 AM

I had a pair of the Strada Bianca 700x30 clinchers, and I had to retire them because the braking force would make the tyres gradually creep around the rim until the valve got ripped out of the tube. Here's what the wheel would look like after a ride of 40-50km, and the valve was straight at the start of the ride:

<a href="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/HOpdBTbT98u0SvDlHnVWG5M8taZcvegu5kVwBvQKHI3eau_LikjqME1qsqWtlrVEGn-vQMyf8qJAs4us0QXcTbg_HXoN8CLakKvBkuzRid51_3VGRXfSY36_aQzLXACLksoXf-Bq1Zo=w2400?source=screenshot.guru"> <img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/HOpdBTbT98u0SvDlHnVWG5M8taZcvegu5kVwBvQKHI3eau_LikjqME1qsqWtlrVEGn-vQMyf8qJAs4us0QXcTbg_HXoN8CLakKvBkuzRid51_3VGRXfSY36_aQzLXACLksoXf-Bq1Zo=w600-h315-p-k" /> </a>

The rims are Mavic MA2 - been using them for years with multiple other brands of tyre with no such problem, and the GP5000 700x32 I fitted after removing the Strada Bianca tyres didn't have the problem when inflated to the same pressure.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17849
Location: Portland, OR

7/8/20 8:59 AM

I am betting the rim/glue being 26.4mm wide should keep mine safe from that. ;)

How was the tire otherwise, ride, wear etc.

I'd have attempted some sort of gooing/glueing on that.

Was it both or just one?

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4674
Location: Nashua, NH

7/8/20 5:20 PM

This is not all that unsurprising, as tires get wider and pressures get lower. I think it makes a good argument that wider tires should be tubeless and fit the rims tightly, so lower air pressures may be used safely.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17849
Location: Portland, OR

7/8/20 5:37 PM

Also, were the 32s a normal, and not open tubular design?

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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2677
Location: hillbilly heaven

7/8/20 6:17 PM

Whats the difference in a clincher and an open tubular?

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17849
Location: Portland, OR

7/8/20 7:50 PM

An "open tubular" is basically a tubular tire with clincher beads instead of being sewn.

The all knowing googal sez...

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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2677
Location: hillbilly heaven

7/8/20 9:16 PM

Whats the difference in an open tubular and a clincher?

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17849
Location: Portland, OR

7/8/20 10:16 PM

FWIW, ENVE does not suggest using open clinchers on their rims.

Not recommended

Challenge handmade clinchers (all models)
Vittoria Corsa non-tubeless


Supposedly, the cold hand glued on tread of toobies and open toobies is the reason for the ride quality. The bond that vulcanizing makes for a much stiffer casing/tread, yada.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6427
Location: Maine

7/9/20 5:31 AM

Tire esoterica

Supposedly the magic of the exotic FMB tubies comes from gluing the tread on an inflated casing rather than flat. Dunno if there’s much to that or not.

Regarding the tube creep with wide, low pressure clinchers, seems to me that may be pretty unusual? I read the Rene Herse newsletter discussing tons of miles ridden with such setup and that issue is never mentioned. FWIW

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4674
Location: Nashua, NH

7/9/20 6:42 AM

Perhaps it's just a anomaly of this particular tire/rim combination. There's a lot of inconsistency in sizing and fit, as we've all probably experienced.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17849
Location: Portland, OR

7/9/20 8:09 AM

Last ride out @ 70 PSI, I felt like I could ride the bike all day. My take on the Helix previously was that it rode reasonable well for a still bike. These Strata toobies put it in Look 585 class ride quality wise.

The tires definitely afford comfort level above every thing else I have been using. Better even than 38mm Supple Vit Soma [open clinchers] with latex tubes, that was the high water mark previously.

FYI, apparently Tufo toobies and the Clement PDX sewups are tubeless as well. Coated inner casings for air tightness. PDX made by Tufo it seems.

These loose a lot less air than latex setups, not put sealant in yet.

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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 3065
Location: Midland, MI

7/9/20 2:48 PM

La difference


quote:
Whats the difference in an open tubular and a clincher?


Some would argue that the difference exists primarily in the marketing department. After all, you can make a crap tubular from the same casing you make a crap clincher, and vice versa.

Regarding tire creep, especially on the front wheel the glue should be more than enough to hold the tire in place unless the tire is so loose on the rim that there is minimal force forcing the tire against the glue. Another (though improbable) cause could be that the tire inner circumference grows as the tire pressure rises. If either one of these is the case, it's a tire defect.

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Nick Payne
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 2487
Location: Canberra, Australia

7/10/20 2:39 AM


quote:
Regarding the tube creep with wide, low pressure clinchers, seems to me that may be pretty unusual? I read the Rene Herse newsletter discussing tons of miles ridden with such setup and that issue is never mentioned.

This is the only tyre/rim combination where I've experienced this problem, and most of my bikes have wide, low pressure tyres. But most of them I run tubeless, so even if the tyre did gradually creep around the rim, I wouldn't notice it. I do run Hetres (650b x 42) with tubes on another bike, at around 30psi front / 40psi rear, and they've never had the problem.

I did notice that the fabric at the bead on the Challenge tyres was smoother than on other tyres that I use - maybe that is what causes the gradual creep.

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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2677
Location: hillbilly heaven

7/10/20 4:37 PM

heres what Veloflex says about calling them open tubulars.

"Our open tubulars are manufactured with the same artisanal process that we use for the tubulars, and this is the reason why we generally don’t call them clincher tires. Choose the "

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6427
Location: Maine

7/10/20 4:52 PM

That explains it

There’s a similar product, Closed Clinchers.

And I love my Freewheeled Fixie.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17849
Location: Portland, OR

7/10/20 6:34 PM

My busted knee in 2006 ended my fixed activities. Even still my stokers late cadence cool offs aggravate that ACL.

So SS have been free wheeling BMX spin ons since.

But my all time fav is the Automatix SRAM wheel I built that at a certain cog RPM tosses out little counter weights and shifts from 1:1 to 1:1.37.

So with my current rings and cog it's 55 GI and then about 12-13 MPH just under 80 GI. You can reasonably climb short steeps @ 55 GI, and FTP along pretty well at 78-9 GI.

Best part is startups from lots of city stops are both easier and your get to speed faster, by a lot. And my knee don't ache after rides.

Just did a 50+ ride on the toobies @ 65-75 PSI. I am in love totally. At least until the honey moon gets interrupted by a flat anyway...


Last edited by Sparky on 7/10/20 11:34 PM; edited 1 time in total

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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2677
Location: hillbilly heaven

7/10/20 11:19 PM

What kind of plug kit and sealant are you carrying? If sealant does not stop a leaking puncture, can you then plug it and have it seal properly?

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17849
Location: Portland, OR

7/11/20 12:02 AM

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07WHDQG6R/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Stans

And hopefully... to answer those 3 questions. ;)

I did not put in the Stans, but am carry a 2oz bottle, valve tool, and the plug kit. I figure I will inject the Stans should I flat, and plug if that does not seal it.

This way the Stans is not drying out in there. Should be less likely to puncture with newest tire/thickest tread? When thin enough to start flatting, the fresh sealant will hopefully be better at a seal in theory of my minds eye.

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Nick Payne
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 2487
Location: Canberra, Australia

7/11/20 5:57 AM


quote:
What kind of plug kit and sealant are you carrying? If sealant does not stop a leaking puncture, can you then plug it and have it seal properly?

For sealant, Orange Seal Endurance. I carry tyre worms with me, and a couple of times when I've had a cut in a tubeless tyre that's too big for the sealant to cope with, I've plugged in a worm and that's been sufficient to allow the tyre to be inflated and continue on my way. I do carry a spare tube, just in case, but so far I haven't had to resort to that with a tubeless setup.

The worms seem to be a pretty permanent fix. I had to use one on a WTB Horizon (650b x 47) that had a big cut in the tread, and about six months later I'm still riding that tyre around with the worm in it.

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