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Cardio follow up.
 

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17622
Location: Portland, OR

1/10/20 1:44 PM

Cardio follow up.

As I expected & hoped, my one year out follow up netted 'similar results' to the 10/2018 echo cardio visit.

But it does bring to the forefront my questioning any upside to hard efforts for an old farts like me [us?]

Everyone I know [cyclists] get the same eyebrow raise from doctors when they talk about duration and HR levels common and frequent.

My Doc said I go well past needed duration for baseline cardio fitness. I did not bother to discuss endurance and power. But am starting to think more on the lines of not trying to get faster as a focused goal in my riding. There, I said it. ;)

But I excel at lying to myself...

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greglepore
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1678
Location: SE Pa, USA

1/10/20 8:15 PM

seiler. do 80% of your wrk at below 85% mhr. Remaining 2 at or above threshold. Or do no intensity unless the road needs it. its about fighting to be 75 and active at our age

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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 3028
Location: Midland, MI

1/11/20 9:44 AM

Data base

It will be a LONG time, if ever, before the medical profession fully understands the impact of a lifetime of the kind of exercise we're talking about. While there are enough people doing it to actually analyze it, I don't think anybody is gathering the data. All we really have is anecdotes. A great topic for a PhD in exercise physiology. Let the grant-writing begin!

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6332
Location: Maine

1/11/20 10:30 AM

And more specifically

For those of us with aortic aneurysms there is a more specific question without an answer: to what extent may strenuous exercise increase the chances of a dissection or rupture?

I just had a conversation about this with my cardiologist the other day (knowing that there is no answer as there is no data). My aneurysm was diagnosed about 2 1/2 years ago, and through several monitoring scans is considered stable. I have never had any symptoms from it. I have had various broken bones and other issues in this period, so I havenít been riding at a high level, but all that is in pretty good shape now and Iíd love to ride hard.

Iíve had several conversations about this with docs, and when you mention cycling, they say ďthatís fine.Ē But they are not thinking about cyclists like us. I would love to do an FTP test and get on with some structured training, but when I described an FTP test the cardiologist visibly recoiled and said ďIíd dial that back a bit.Ē He said I should shoot for about 75%. But thatís just a guess, and another question is, 75% of what? HR? Watts? Kilojoules? Duration? Iíd guess youíd look at HR or power, but if I have to keep those at 75%, I canít do Sh*t. Similarly, the U of Michigan has the old guideline ďbe able to carry on a conversation.Ē I breech those guidelines every time I ride hard up a steep hill.

My GUESS is that I can do pretty much anything I want to without damage, but Iím not confident enough to ďbet my lifeĒ on it. So I guess Iíll keep riding up hills briskly, but not hammer, and Iíll pass on the FTP test (20 minutes as hard as you can).

I donít think intensity has any particular value for general health, but for me itís fun in itself and it prepares you to do events that are fun. But maybe I have to let some of that go.

But really everyone is just guessing.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17622
Location: Portland, OR

1/11/20 11:40 AM

"if I have to keep those at 75%, I canít do Sh*t."

Agree, my guess is that I ain't dropping anyone before 85%. And happy it can even still happen. ;)

I know this much, I am pushing the pump less @ 20 MPH 35lb lighter... I know my average pace was up a lot form previous years by the gears I used 2019 compared to previous years w/consistent cadence.

This will suffice as much as I'd love to average over 20 on 50 milers like I once did. At least I ain't slow. But seems my days of dropping younger riders is over.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17622
Location: Portland, OR

1/11/20 5:15 PM

"But really everyone is just guessing."

Which made me think of this:

Dr. McCoy : No, Spock. He means that he feels safer about your guesses than most other people's facts.

Spock : Ah. Then, I will try to make the best guess I can.

Point being the Cardio Doctor's best guess might be better than mine could be...

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Marc N.
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 454
Location: Israel

1/12/20 9:34 AM

75%

Jeez, I think my heart rate is at 75% of max just by tying my shoes and walking out the door. I do think as one ages, time {pace or speed) become less important compared to the overall effort. I ran a marathon last week, and while I was hoping for a slightly faster time, I wasn`t at all disappointed, but thrilled that in my 70th year I`m still able to do something like that. At some point, you have to make some concessions to age, for as Greg said, it`s about fighting to remain active.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17622
Location: Portland, OR

1/12/20 1:42 PM

"thrilled that in my 70th year I`m still able to do something like that."

@ 62, I am encouraged when I read such comments ;)

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6332
Location: Maine

1/13/20 7:45 AM

Nice job, Marc

Awesome.

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rickhardy
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 1467
Location: Needham outside of Boston - the hub of the universe

1/13/20 8:40 AM

Intersting perspective on research

I am no fan of Carmichael but this was an interesting perspective:

"The generation that is now 50-70 years old is headed into uncharted territory, to some extent. Thereís a lot of research on aging, and even on the consequences of being active vs. being sedentary as we age, but previous generations didnít participate in nearly as much organized and lifelong exercise. The ďGreatest GenerationĒ was very active in terms of activities of daily living and led less sedentary careers, but a relatively low number of people ran, cycled, rowed, lifted weights, or exercised specifically to gain cardiovascular fitness well into their 50s and beyond."
https://trainright.com/4-training-myths-for-cyclists-50-and-older/

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Marc N.
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 454
Location: Israel

1/13/20 8:49 AM

Thanks guys!

I`m asked every now and then to compare cycling and running, and my answer inevitably is I can`t...they are two very different beasts. They both can push you to your physical and mental limits, but on any given day can be such a blast to do. Most of you do the occasional long ride with silly amounts of climbing, and when I read about them, I think to myself, "no friggin` way." A marathon, those rides....the same but different.

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Nick Payne
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 2463
Location: Canberra, Australia

1/13/20 6:26 PM

Since I retired, I'm probably riding more than I have for the past quarter of a century, but most of it is at a not very high level of effort. I do the occasional blast up a hill, like a couple of times a week, but that's probably 10-15 minutes total out of 12-15 hours on the bike each week. The rest of the time I'm just spinning along in a pretty easy gear.

I've seen quite a number of my cycling friends wind up with heart problems from a lifetime of high intensity training. Maybe the fact that I've only raced about ten years out of the past forty is a good thing...

My father rode a bike until he was in his 90s, and I aim to emulate him.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17622
Location: Portland, OR

1/14/20 1:12 PM

"My father rode a bike until he was in his 90s, and I aim to emulate him."

Not just you. ;) That is awesome.

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greglepore
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1678
Location: SE Pa, USA

1/14/20 6:49 PM

Nick gets it. I think that heart fitness is sort of a bell curve, and that either extreme (little aerobic activity or on the other end too much high intensity) is not a good thing as we age.

And Rick makes an excellent point, we're in uncharted waters. We do know that inactivity will kill ya, and that folks that are prone to afib, even if unknown when younger, can exacerbate it.

I watched the gamechangers movie last night, and my take was "moderation, mothers." I like meat, red, poultry, fish. But I don't gorge on it...and I'm fine. Go easy and life is good.

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rickhardy
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 1467
Location: Needham outside of Boston - the hub of the universe

1/15/20 1:19 PM

Gamechangers

I viewed it Monday night while on the trainer

I think there is some merit in the message

but

Medio tutissimus ibis.

You will be safest in the middle.

ó Ovid

Humans = omnivore

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17622
Location: Portland, OR

1/24/20 9:38 PM

Saw the Cardio doc for the post echo cardiogram consultation.

Interestingly, unexpected response to my "I wanna loose a some more weight" [phase two considering I am -38 lb since this all started 10/2018].

He said not too much, as age will take weight and muscle mass, and bone density away. So being my current weight will serve me going forward/aging.

Consult went well, yearly echocardio grams to make sure minor dilation state doesn't progress into thin walls. ;)

And as Dan said to me, probability of being kept on the beta blocker being likely, was spot on. Although so far only at the lowest prescribed dose of the particular one I am on.

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