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Gravel bike?
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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17222
Location: Portland, OR

4/11/19 9:30 AM

Spesh Roubaix on the same track with the Frnt/rear version of susp.

As usual I am 5+ years behind...

A few of us here started going backards too, with older Spectrum, Serotta Ottrott et al.

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dddd
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3267
Location: NorCal

4/11/19 9:58 PM

I rode a Trek hybrid just like that one some years ago, did a lot of off-road riding on it actually. I ended up using a Marzocchi air/oil fork on it and used 38c tires iir. Other riders on group mtb rides were surprised that it worked so well on tricky terrain as I had fully adapted to it's limitations.

The 700c hybrids of old never much entered the high-end market, which was a shame I think as they were really quite forward-thinking. I bought a Specialized CrossRoads hybrid soon after moving back to California in 1991, and it was a bike that I wore out in about two years. I learned how to mountain bike on that thing and discovered new highs in my riding fitness.

That P-R Pinarello looks to have some sort of "headset" suspension, which is the kind of suspension to use when it would be bad to ruin a bike's aero efficiency.
My current short-trip ride is an aluminum Trek Hybrid with a Bontrager SPA headtube suspension, which works quite well in conjunction with a suspension seatpost. It's most useful for errands and for local exploring with it's tough "urban" Hard-Case tires. I took a picture of it in the dark just now:






Who can forget the suspension bikes built for Paris-Roubaix in the mid nineties? I grabbed one of the breed off Ebay when I realized their brief impact on the history of racing and of bicycle development. Stupid thing was that it only has clearance for 25c tires!

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17222
Location: Portland, OR

4/11/19 10:14 PM

"Stupid thing was that it only has clearance for 25c tires!"

That was FAT! the road bikes had 18mm, and some guys even rode 20mm, imagine? That is a pretty cool machine though...

That TruTemper Trek 730 Hybrid was my only off road bike for 3 seasons. The only real issue was with the 45mm Fire CX tires, the chain would catch the edges of the rear tire knobs if you tried to use the granny. ;)

So I'd have climb out of the saddle if I got stuck behind a granny geared MTB spinning up a narrow single track. Get up to them, track stand and then pedal out of the saddle until I either did another track stand, or found a spot to blow by anaerobic as hell. ;)

I am definitely taking the 'Pro Cross' vinyl letters off the TT and getting some new vinyl letters that say 'Mongrel'. Thanks for that idea...

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6190
Location: Maine

4/12/19 2:20 PM

Bike is in and built

Pick it up tomorrow and it's supposed to hit 70.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4368
Location: Nashua, NH

4/12/19 2:51 PM

Just in time for spring!

I'm surprised that Trek doesn't offer it with any 1x options and it had to be custom-built. It may not be as popular on gravel bikes as on 'cross bikes, but I still see a lot of 1x gravel rigs.

I hope you enjoy it and and with any luck, we'll see you at the Raid!


Last edited by Brian Nystrom on 4/13/19 6:54 AM; edited 1 time in total

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17222
Location: Portland, OR

4/12/19 3:19 PM

"Bike is in and built"

eMail me a pic if you want it hosted/posted.


And here she be:



Last edited by Sparky on 4/13/19 4:40 PM; edited 1 time in total

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17222
Location: Portland, OR

4/13/19 4:14 PM

[approve of the color FWIW] ;)


I like those CX1 cranks big time. All the road, MTB, SS spiders interchange. I bought 3 of these CX1 Force level carbon GPX cranks, no rings, but with spiders.

The first was the same as that Trek, Narrow/Tall SS chainring, in my case a 38T.

Second is 34/50 Force Chainrings on my Madone. With the GXP you just change the non drive bearing to a 22mm ID instead of the Shimano 24mm. Very Trek BB90 friendly and you loose the somewhat porky GPX BB.

And the last one I just pulled off the Conquest for the MongrelSkey. 4 arm MTB spider with 28/42, but you do gain some extra weight with BSA/Threaded GPX BB.

MAKE SURE they did not skip the pedal spindle washers when they set your up. Not optional. Look, ask, make sure...


Last edited by Sparky on 4/18/19 12:04 AM; edited 1 time in total

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6190
Location: Maine

4/13/19 4:53 PM

Thanks

Took it out for a shakedown ride - only about an hour, but some pretty good dirt up and down - love it.

The color doesnít come through too well in the photo, but I think the dark red with those orange-pink decals is pretty badass...:)

Form the pic I raised the seat slightly and rolled the bars a bit forward, and got a good position. The bike handles neutral, like a good road bike, I didnít even think about handling.

For steep dirt, I love the shifting and gearing. If I was pacelining on rolling terrain the gaps would be bigger than optimal, but I seldom do that and if I do Iím on a different bike. But on short steep hills Iím doing big shifts anyway, so this is actually easier. The SRAM double tap seems easy enough. Glad I got the 1x.

I used 45psi, think Iíll go a little lower, at least in front. 40 mm.

I was pleased that when I went up a hill pretty hard, the bike hung right in there. And the ride of course is nice, but not at all mushy.

I got a bunch of blendr integrated stuff - lights, computer, hrm, all run with a remote on the bar. Some time Iíll have to figure out how to use it all....

Got a rack and shopping bag pannier so it should be great for commuting and errands.

Gives me some motivation to ride D2R2. As David the shop owner said ďyou just go and ride a few hours doing whatever you want - what else are you doing to do that dayĒ? Good question.

Looking forward to a longer ride tomorrow.

Sorry, red tires and tape are not my style...:)

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17222
Location: Portland, OR

4/13/19 5:22 PM

So how would you compare fat tires no ISO decouplers to road tires on the double ISO decoupled Domane?

Also, any comment on the Race Shop H1 Domane VS the Endurance geom on this new steed?

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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 2988
Location: Midland, MI

4/14/19 8:03 AM

Colored tires

Back in the day, colored tires did not wear as well or grip as well as those that used carbon black. I had both orange and blue Conti GP 3000 and they were not great. Conti still touts their "black chili" compound, which is marketing hype for carbon black. I understand the desire to fashion match tires and paint, but I wonder where the performance is these days.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4368
Location: Nashua, NH

4/14/19 8:47 AM

"Form the pic I raised the seat slightly and rolled the bars a bit forward, and got a good position."
The bar position did look a bit odd, which is one of the first things I noticed.

I'm glad to hear that you like it. I don't recall what you weigh, but at 170#, I find that 30/32 psi front/rear works nicely with 40mm tires. I don't run as much of a difference in pressure as I do on the road, as I find that the front tire sometimes takes significant hits and a few extra psi reduces the chance of bottoming out.

Linda and I got out on the road yesterday and actually rode in shorts and short sleeves for the first time this year. After a hilly 42.5 miles, I was toast. Next week's Muddy Onion is definitely going to be an adventure!

We're going out on the gravel rigs this afternoon. I just changed her front chainring from a 40 to a 36 in preparation for the VT hills next week. Cannondale doesn't make a 36, so we switched her over to the Wolf Tooth CAMO system spider and ring. That way we can change her gearing at will with relatively inexpensive and easy to swap chainrings (dealing with one-piece "spiderings" is a pain and expensive). On her SuperX with the AI rear end, we used the Wolf Tooth M1 spider and the chainline is perfect.

We'll see how the legs feel...


Last edited by Brian Nystrom on 4/15/19 8:03 AM; edited 1 time in total

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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2596
Location: hillbilly heaven

4/14/19 9:44 AM

Dan that's a great looking bike. I want it.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6190
Location: Maine

4/14/19 12:03 PM

Another ride

Longer ride today, lots of dirt and short steep stuff. For that riding, I absolutely love this bike. The position, slightly more compact than my road bike, feels great for seated climbing on the hoods (which is nearly always how I climb). And I love climbing steep dirt with the 1x with relatively big jumps - it just feels right to get it on a big cog and go. And it handles the rough stuff well - @Sparky, it does have a rear decoupler, just not the front.

@Brian, the weird look of the bars was mostly an artifact of the pic I think, amplified by the huge SRAM hoods. They were just tilted up a bit more than I like, though this type of position seems fairly popular.

@Sparky, Iíd have to ride this and the RSL more on the same surface to make a precise comparison, but theyíre different bikes for different purposes and surfaces, so itís kind of apples and oranges. As I said, the Checkpoint does have a rear decoupler. The position is slightly lower and more stretched on the RSL, but Iím comfortable on both. And as I said, the more compact position may be better for steep, seated, dirt climbing. The RSL feels faster on the road, the Checkpoint more stable on dirt and loose stuff (though each does pretty well on the opposite surface).

@Dan, Iíd recommend it. I said to the shop owner, ďI know I itís a pain to strip a bike and put on a different groupĒ and he said ďyeah it is but you got exactly what you wanted.Ē Righto

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17222
Location: Portland, OR

4/14/19 1:09 PM

"The position is slightly lower and more stretched on the RSL, but Iím comfortable on both"

One has 7.4CM BB drop the other 7.8CM. The RSL actually being lower assuming 58CM bikes.

So when you say lower, you mean stack and how you have the bar height set??

FWIW, I seem to like the bars on adventure/gravel only 2CM higher. [axle to bar] But maybe a long ride with some softer surface a little higher might be better.

But actually on my Strong/Disc, [being the BB drop is 14mm more than the Pro-CX] the effective bar height if same front axle to bar meas is actually higher bars.

Not thought too much yet about the 650b on the Lynskey as far as this equation goes, only to say I like it as it is out of the gate on my initial setup.

But your report is good news, when your initial fit and comfort is great outta the gate. Glad to hear your efforts are so far fruitful.

Questions:
>>Did you have your shop/guy duplicate your saddle setback to your road position, curious?
>> Did you get a weight finished, I am curious being my 'like bikes' are steel/AL/Ti variations VS Carbon.


Last edited by Sparky on 4/14/19 1:33 PM; edited 1 time in total

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6190
Location: Maine

4/14/19 1:29 PM

Position etc

By lower I only mean bars in relation to saddle. And I could easily lower these bars but am not inclined to.

I donít calculate or measure saddle setback. I just got on the saddle where it was set and it felt good. I used to slam saddles all the way beck but now I generally have them in a neutral position.

I donít know what the bike weighs, but when I picked it up to put in the back of the car, I thought, ďcrap, this is light!Ē

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17222
Location: Portland, OR

4/14/19 2:05 PM

I saw this:

"As is, total weight of a 52cm Checkpoint SL 6 is 8.85kg (19.5lb), without pedals or accessories"

AND:

Claimed weight for a 56cm carbon Checkpoint frame is a respectable 1,240g, plus 470g for the matching all-carbon fork. That is 3.75 lb and pretty impressive, except I don't believe it for a nano. But claimed always seems to not be true mostly.

Also saw SL 5 @ 9760grams or 21.45lb but did not say size or if pedals. but the pics in the review showed 2 sided MTB pedals and looked like a 56 to me.

I can say both my Lynskey and Strong Disc frames are exactly 4.0lb. [Lynskey on the phone told me the 'L' Pro-CX was 3.6lb] And both Strong Steel forks are 1.6lb cut. Both these bike are lighter than the AL Conquest by a bit. [1.5-2lb]. Di2 is porky though...

So I am taking a weight hit of '250' grams on these forks over carbon. But I am not doing carbon forks anymore. I am afraid as I get to old to check them of getting a surprise down the road. My 18 year old Strong road bike is on it's 4th fork, now steel. Inspections every few year show things I was not willing to keep riding on.

My thinking: Considering ATSM use condition ratings of these forks, I personally will stick with steel @ my weight and size.

The carbon steerer notching aside.. an ATSM level 3 I'd accept is not really much lighter than a steel fork anyway. VS hand made from high end as My Strong forks are.

I digress...

You skinny light guys can keep your ATSM 2 forks.


Last edited by Sparky on 4/15/19 8:20 AM; edited 1 time in total

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17222
Location: Portland, OR

4/14/19 2:11 PM

The red tires was tongue in cheek, should I have to note that? ;)

My Conti blue and red tire experience was same as dddd. Stuck like shit, and wore fast and furious.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6190
Location: Maine

4/14/19 2:21 PM

Weight etc

I basically understand nothing in your post...:)

Weight has nothing to do with my selection and I have no problem with carbon anything if I trust the manufacturer. Though basically I donít care what material anything is made of. The reasons I selected this bike have nothing to do with carbon.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17222
Location: Portland, OR

4/14/19 2:34 PM

Not critiquing your choices or decisions, sorry if it seemed that way.

Just trying to lay out in the thread the things germane to choosing this gear. Being that I think we are all learning this here/now for the most part. Bike forum discussion, yada. ;)

I think we all still have weight weenie in us. And putting forth the idea for this type of bike there is certain reality in the weights of the 'gravel' components. Tires/disc/hubs, especially perhaps.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4368
Location: Nashua, NH

4/15/19 8:10 AM

Dan, I agree that a slightly more compact setup is better for gravel riding. I also use a slightly more forward saddle position (5-10mm), which works better on steep climbs and doesn't seem to have any detrimental effect on descents.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4368
Location: Nashua, NH

4/15/19 8:24 AM

Dear Synchro-Shift...

We've spent nearly two years together and while we've had some great times, our differences have become glaringly apparent and frankly, I've fallen out of love with you...

I've finally gotten fed up with the inflexibility of Synchro-Shift and the painfully slow shifts from the big to small chainring that I'm going back to the Di2 Manual mode. Particularly for the gravel rides we have coming up where we're almost constantly going up or down steeply, being able to select the chainring I want, when I want it, is critical. Too many times I've started a climb and gotten stuck waiting for the painfully slow, balky, momentum-killing Synchro downshift to complete. Now I'll be able to grab the small ring on a descent and be ready to go at the base of climb. Cresting a climb that immediately descend, I can just grab the big ring and go, as I do on my mechanical 10-speed road bikes.

If this doesn't work out, it will be the end of electronic shifting for me. Mechanical Campy is so much faster when shifting both derailleurs at once that my next move will probably be to one of their 12-speed mechanical gruppos.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17222
Location: Portland, OR

4/15/19 8:27 AM

Brain, that sounds totally annoying for sure.. I am not nearly as enamored with Di2 as I was. But glad I got it on a few setups for the experience.

It's not like you don't have decades of experience being in the right gear at the right time or anything re:synroshift.

Looks like some nice fudge room for extending or tightening the wheelbase on the ChkPt the way the rear is configured DropOut/Axle wise...

SS provision?



Last edited by Sparky on 4/15/19 8:39 AM; edited 2 times in total

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17222
Location: Portland, OR

4/15/19 8:33 AM

A note on the rack mounts. Be sure to use steel, preferably stainless screws/bolts into the frame. My Roubaix came with alloy bolts, stupid!

It took me like 2 hours to get the small bolt that sheered off flush outta the 'hidden thread' in the frame.

__________

Also notice the ChkPt has some cool options for the Stem/Cap on the Blendr Stem to mount stuff up front..

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6190
Location: Maine

4/15/19 9:41 AM

Dunno about Synchro-Shift

But that sounds like the 7th circle of freakin' hell....

May I suggest mechanical 1x!

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4368
Location: Nashua, NH

4/15/19 4:17 PM

"But that sounds like the 7th circle of freakin' hell..."
Yeah, pretty much. I'm used to being able to make that shift in a fraction of a second and I do it all the time. Having to wait for the plodding Synchro-Shift just plain sucked.

"May I suggest mechanical 1x!"
Been there, done that and didn't like the limitations of it, either.

I'm perfectly fine with 2x mechanical and haven't found it to have any disadvantages vs. 1x. I run 2x on my MTBs, too.

Then again, there's always Rotor Uno 1x13 hydraulic. Simple, no batteries, no maintenance, smaller gearing gaps...

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