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Ceramic Bearing in wheels
 

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17072
Location: Portland, OR

2/21/19 11:07 AM

Ceramic Bearing in wheels

I never bought any ceramic cool-aide on the bearing front. Probably and mostly due to being cheap basically.

Having said that, the Lynskey has ceramic bearings in the BB and the Zero Fulcrum wheels do as well.

I have the wheels on my Colnago. Now I had no expectation, kinds ceramic bearings, so what. But it seems I can feel it. It took feeling it to associate it to the wheels, that is what got my attention.

They just seem to roll with a feel of... I am not sure how to word it actually.

Anyone using ceramic bearing wheels?

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17072
Location: Portland, OR

2/21/19 11:44 AM

Strong Gravel frame $1000.00 off

May as well stick this here:

Carl has 1000.00 off a Ti gravel all/rad disc frame with a 55 Top Tub due to a chainstay issue for the build.

https://mailchi.mp/2fa28050833d/i-screwed-up?e=1908b7bb9a



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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2564
Location: hillbilly heaven

2/21/19 12:03 PM

I've only read great things about Campy/Fulcrum wheels over the years. People also like their steel bearing wheels so it would be hard to say the ceramic makes difference. I always thought it was snake oil but honestly I dunno.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4279
Location: Nashua, NH

2/21/19 12:54 PM

Placebo effect

I've got ceramic bearings in a couple of bottom brackets (the cranksets came with them), in some modestly priced BBB jockey wheels, but I don't think I have any in hubs. While they're very smooth, I'm under no illusion that I can actually feel the difference of 0.1 watts or whatever they claim to save. There are so many factors that affect the way a bike rolls, that bearing friction just gets lost in the noise.

Honestly Sparky, you change bikes and components so frequently that you couldn't possibly have any real basis for comparison. That's not meant to be critical, as I wish I had the disposable cash to change bikes on a whim, but rather it's meant to be a reality check.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17072
Location: Portland, OR

2/21/19 1:36 PM

"Honestly Sparky, you change bikes and components so frequently that you couldn't possibly have any real basis for comparison"

You just reminded me, I gotta go change my underwear. I do that every 3 bike changes. ;)

"That's not meant to be critical, as I wish I had the disposable cash to change bikes on a whim"

I did not take it as critical. As far as disposable cash. My methodology is closer to net zero then you might imagine. That is why I keep inventory and grab deal quick and flip etc.

My goal with a bike is to use it for a few seasons @ a minimum if high end, sell for what I have into it it or close. Easy when you get some deals like these last two.

Anyone wanna buy a 80th Ani SR group put back in the boxes? ;)

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Paul Datars
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 1229
Location: Manotick, Ontario, Canada

2/23/19 1:11 PM

I've always found it amazing what we humans can 'feel'...now whether that 'feel' amounts to anything with regard to going faster is another matter.

I was checking the clearance on some valve guides last week. I gave a couple valve stems a wiggle (this after having measure a bunch of others) then I took a guess that the exhaust valve felt slightly looser than the intake. When I took the measurements the exhaust turned out to be at .003" and the intake was .005". Like how the hell can I 'feel' a couple thou difference??? That said I did this couple more times consistently right. Now would I ever trust my 'feel' without backing it up with a real measurement, not bloody likely.

Cheers, Paul.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17072
Location: Portland, OR

2/23/19 3:50 PM

Perception is everything, and sometimes nothing apparently. ;)

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4279
Location: Nashua, NH

2/23/19 3:58 PM

Humans are actually very good at comparisons , whether it's something tactile like Paul's example or visual comparisons. What we suck at is absolute measurements, though that can be greatly improved through experience and repetition. For example, when I was into competitive archery (3D shooting, specifically), I became very adept at determining distances between 10 and 60 yards, but that's because it was one of the primary skills required. I'm sure that others here have vocation or avocation-specific measurement skills that they've honed over the years, too.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17072
Location: Portland, OR

2/23/19 4:02 PM

I was pretty close on guesstimating altitudes when flying a lot. Now, not so much.

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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 2972
Location: Midland, MI

2/23/19 7:07 PM

Stopwatch


quote:
perception is everything, and sometimes nothing apparently.


When all else fails, you can always measure things with a stopwatch. Amazing how that damps down the placebo effect.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4279
Location: Nashua, NH

2/24/19 10:48 AM

Sure...

...but where's the fun in that? Sometimes the truth just sucks. ;-)

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Paul Datars
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 1229
Location: Manotick, Ontario, Canada

2/24/19 2:34 PM

And while we're on the topic of perception vs. a stop watch, I've never been one to think a really stiff frame is actually measurably faster than a 'soft' frame. While I know guys who swear a stiff frame is faster I've always felt that while they ARE feeling something they like, it might not actually translate to a stop watch. Although with that said, sometimes if you 'feel' better (more confident?) you might go faster.

This comes to mind because I just watched this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH_AL4rxrp8

Cheers, Paul.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17072
Location: Portland, OR

2/24/19 3:22 PM

Stiff frames mattered to me when I was 40-44 and had speed skater thighs.
Now that I have twiggy legs, not so much...


Last edited by Sparky on 2/24/19 7:13 PM; edited 1 time in total

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stan
Joined: 14 Feb 2004
Posts: 440

2/24/19 6:10 PM

Bike comparison

I rode an old weekend bike I kept near salt water. It was a 1985 steel frame with 32 spoke wheels. I timed myself over a 30 mile loop occassionLly just to see how my fitness improved. Occasionally I would bring my aero Cervelo over with Zipp 404 wheels and did the same course. My times weren’t that different with 1.5 minutes generallybetween the two. Between aero wheels, shifting from the bars rather than downtube, and a stiff aero frame, I expected 3,4 or 5 minute differences but it never happened.

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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 2972
Location: Midland, MI

2/25/19 9:48 AM

Timing

3-5 minutes is the kind of time savings you can expect over 100 miles. If you are riding absolutely flat out on a time trial bike and in a full aero position, you might see those kinds of speed improvements in 30 miles, but for regular riding at pace, you really won't see it. Physics shows no favors.

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Paul Datars
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 1229
Location: Manotick, Ontario, Canada

2/25/19 1:10 PM

Wow, 30 seconds over 10 miles (ie. 1.5m over 30 miles) sure wouldn't be enough to motivate me to go aero, particularly if I wasn't focused on going fast. That said, seems to me a good aero frame and good aero wheels combined should translate into more speed than that.

I've done some relatively extensive testing/comparisons between a round tubed ti fame and a S5 Cervelo, found the aero to be worth a solid/consistent 15W. Also found a similar advantage to 808 Firecrest Zipps compared to Rolf Elan Aero wheels. Combine those two and I have enough to delude some long time riding partners into thinking I haven't lost any power/speed compared to roughly 12 years ago.

Cheers, Paul.

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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 2972
Location: Midland, MI

2/28/19 9:47 PM


quote:
seems to me a good aero frame and good aero wheels combined should translate into more speed than that


Agree. I would think it would be more like 1.5 minutes over 10 miles. That's what I saw when I rode an aero bike in a 10 mile TT.

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