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Campy Chorus vs SRAM Force 22
 

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sjm845
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
Posts: 41
Location: Haskell NJ

6/29/18 3:16 PM

Campy Chorus vs SRAM Force 22

Looking for some opinions on a bike build. Is campy chorus disc worth an extra $1000 over sram force 22 disc?

I've had force on 2 bikes and liked it fine. Before that was always a campy guy and just put on a full 2018 Centaur group on an old frame and love the ergos. The chorus I had on that frame was still in perfect condition after 20 years and 30K miles. Have never ridden campy or sram disc brakes but I'm definitely getting discs on this new bike.

I'm getting a steel Strong frame and full build. It's going to fit perfect but perfection isn't cheap...and it shouldn't be. 20 years ago when I raced and rode 8-10K miles a year I could and did justify chorus. Now--my riding level is nowhere near that and if all things are equal...what do you think? If there isn't that much in a quality difference, I think I have to save the $1000. Right?

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16693
Location: Portland, OR

6/29/18 3:56 PM

I'd think if you are already used to the SRAM F/22 shifters and know you like the Double Tap, the grand goes a long way to some wheels....

I still have not done more than a quick test ride on Double Tap a long time ago and decided I disliked it. Bit since then I also decided I dislike the brake lever swing to shift.

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sjm845
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
Posts: 41
Location: Haskell NJ

6/29/18 4:11 PM

Double tap works greatónot as smooth as campy but still excellent. Iím getting hed Belgium/king hubs built up regardless of group. The 1000 will go toward flowers for the wife. Or attorney fees.

Bars, stem wheels, etc are constant. The only difference in the Chorus vs Force group in this scenario. And the $1000 between them.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4163
Location: Nashua, NH

6/29/18 6:24 PM

The real question is what do you like better? If you plan to keep the bike for 20 years, the cost of the Chorus upgrade amounts to about a dollar a week. Is it worth that to have something that you really love?

Although I prefer Campy, I have nothing bad to say about SRAM. It's reasonably priced, reasonably light, works well and it's a great value. It's also easy to maintain, as you can get repair parts easily. I use their MTB gear and my girlfriend has some of their road gear and it all does what it's supposed to do without any drama.

Campy has somewhat better ergonomics, is probably somewhat smoother shifting and their disc brakes have been consistently lauded as the best on the market. It's more expensive, but again it's easy to maintain and readily repairable. It's Italian and it seems that everything that comes out of Italy has a premium price.

You really can't go wrong either way, as you're going to end up with a nice bike. It's up to you to determine where the value lies.

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6420
Location: Westchester/NYC

6/30/18 8:59 AM

Brian said what I had in mind but couldn't put into words.

$1000/20 years works out to be $50/year. At that price, what you LIKE should be the only thing really matters.

You're spending a considerable sum to get a full bike that fit you perfectly. That bike will give you endless joy for the next 20+ years (longer as you put in less mileage now). Every time you take it out for a ride (at least once a week?), you can ask yourself if it's worth that extra $1. :D

But...

Having said all that, I have one bike equipped with Campy and one with Shimano. Although I strongly prefer the "feel" of Campy, at the end of my rides on the Shimano equipped bike, I was no less happy. Because after all, as long as the stuff works functionally (mind you, flawlessly), the difference in "feel" simply disappeared.


Last edited by April on 6/30/18 10:16 AM; edited 1 time in total

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dddd
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3221
Location: NorCal

6/30/18 9:56 AM

I've seen too many SRAM rear derailers fail at the cage pivot, and with parts availability nil for the most heavily-worn retaining pin.

My only solution has been to just buy a new Rival derailer, disassemble it, and install it's retaining pin and cage (including integral cage-pivot spindle, the other high-wear item, which mates with the pin) onto the better Force and Red derailers.
It's frustrating having to throw away a Red derailer cage made of carbon because the pivot shaft has severe wear before any of a bike's other major parts have worn out, and this just doesn't occur with Shimano and Campy derailers.

Any SRAM road derailer should be checked periodically for the tell-tale endplay where the cage fits to the lower knuckle of the derailer body. The play is spring-loaded outward (toward the wheel) by the tensioning spring, so one has to squeeze with a bit of force to see how bad this often becomes before the cage is finally ejected toward the spokes. I've seen two such examples in recent months, on bikes that otherwise were in great condition, and a third that had one of the very high-level SRAM MTB rear derailers that use the same threaded-in retaining pin that SRAM will not sell you.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4163
Location: Nashua, NH

6/30/18 12:48 PM

Can you post a pic or a link to a diagram that shows this retaining pin? I wonder if it's something that could be easily made on a lathe or mill.

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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2500
Location: hillbilly heaven

6/30/18 2:46 PM

I would not let price sway ny choice if both are an option. I'd get the one I want.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6019
Location: Maine

6/30/18 7:46 PM

+1

Dans think alike

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4163
Location: Nashua, NH

6/30/18 8:33 PM

If I was going to get SRAM, I'd get Red 22.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16693
Location: Portland, OR

6/30/18 8:41 PM

I'd agree with the Red-22 choice.

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dddd
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3221
Location: NorCal

7/1/18 10:44 AM

This is the nearly-bisected retaining pin, shown next to the heavily-worn cage pivot spindle ledge that wears against the pin.

The worn spindle ledge affects indexing accuracy as the cage moves inward and outward as the asymmetrically-worn ledge ramps off of the pin.

Eventually, one part or the other fails. I've seen the ledge on the spindle fold over after wearing thin, ejecting the cage toward the spokes.

As I said, the inspection part is simple, checking for axial spring-loaded freeplay in the assembled cage pivot.

Replacing just the pin reduces the freeplay, but the pivot spindle marches on toward failure. The cage and pin both must be replaced and SRAM offers neither of these parts!
The pin is not removeable from the cage, either.

To the plus side, the SRAM levers have a hood shape that riders love, and a replacement FORCE or RIVAL derailer isn't very expensive. I would be more worried about one of SRAM's RED or wireless derailers having this issue, as I can well imagine a replacement being extraspensive and/or difficult to find down the road just a few years.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4163
Location: Nashua, NH

7/1/18 11:58 AM

That looks like something that could be prevented with proper lubrication. Perhaps a MSo2-infused grease would do the trick. What did it look like inside when you disassembled it? Was there any lubricant left?

As for a fix, if I understand the relationship between the pin and the spindle, one possible avenue would be to machine off the ledge and replace it with a pressed-on replacement or better yet, a bearing, if something the correct size is available. The pin looks like it could be made relatively easily and if properly hardened, it shouldn't wear like that.

I checked some of our SRAM-equipped bikes and they don't exhibit any signs of axial play. However, they're not our primary bikes and don't have much mileage on them compared to our road bikes. I do have spare SRAM derailleur or two kicking around, so I may disassemble one just to get a better feel for how it works.


Last edited by Brian Nystrom on 7/1/18 2:38 PM; edited 1 time in total

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16693
Location: Portland, OR

7/1/18 1:03 PM

Metallurgy issue?

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4163
Location: Nashua, NH

7/1/18 2:49 PM

That's certainly possible. Both pieces appear to be stainless and stainless-on-stainless friction can cause galling. It also appears to me that the two pieces aren't hard enough to resist wear and deformation.

This whole thing surprises me, as there shouldn't be much pressure on these parts. They should only be under pressure when the rider is shifting down the cassette (from larger to smaller cogs), which takes much less force than shifting up the cassette. I imagine it surprised some SRAM engineers, too!

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equinoxranch
Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 112

7/5/18 5:35 PM

Chorus is great. But so is Potenza, and you can get it in metal - silver, phenomenal bearings, reliability, durability, unparallelled smoothness and CHEAPER than SRAM.

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