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question for trump voters
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walter
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 4360
Location: metro-motown-area

1/22/18 7:59 AM

question for trump voters

not necessarily trump supporters, but anyone that voted for 45 whether you truly believed in him or not.

some expressed interested in voting for him because it would elicit some sort or positive change in politics and maybe "drain the swap".

standing where we are, 1 year on with all that's happened, i'm curious how you feel about 45 now.

is he doing/achieving what you'd hoped?

is he taking politics in the direction you'd hoped?

is he good for the country?

are you hopeful that he's got us on a good track?

anything else that comes to mind?

i'm seriously interested, dont want to bag on anyone, looking for meaningful feedback.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4163
Location: Nashua, NH

1/22/18 4:38 PM

No regrets...

...as he accomplished the one thing that mattered most to me, which was putting a conservative on the Supreme Court.

Now that he's done that, the sooner he's gone the better. Hopefully, he'll be utterly disgraced and in handcuffs.

That said, I am still thoroughly disgusted that our choice was between the two worst candidates I've seen in my lifetime.

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6420
Location: Westchester/NYC

1/22/18 10:06 PM

"the sooner he's gone the better."

I for one, would like to see him serve the full term. Just to demonstrate to his supporters the full price of their choice.

We didn't elect a president to do just ONE THING. We elect them for a term of 4 years!!!

It looks like my wish (that he serves his full term) is looking quite likely. After all, this is our democracy system at work. And even if it doesn't work? WE ARE TO BLAME, for we voted them in. ALL of them! DT and the Senate and the House!!!

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PLee
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 3606
Location: Brooklyn, NY

1/23/18 9:52 AM

Well, Brian, you got what you want, but the full invoice for it won't be known until three years from now and I'm not sure you'll think you got fair value.

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Jesus Saves
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 1131
Location: South of Heaven

1/23/18 11:00 AM

Agree, I guess, PLEE. It's a difficult calculus, from BN's perspective as there may be 2 more Supreme Court vacancies coming up within the next 3 years, plus there is currently hundreds of federal district court vacancies - a matter that is easily overlooked/unaware by the public.

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Tom Price
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 428
Location: Rochester, NY

1/23/18 11:54 AM

David Cay Johnston, a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist, just released his second book about Trump. This book is about how the departments are being gutted. New ambassadors are not being appointed to key countries including South Korea and many Mideast countries. EPA rules being rolled back and much more. Many of these changes will be difficult to reverse and will cause long term damage. I am hoping that we can see an end to this well before his four year term ends.

https://www.amazon.com/Even-Worse-Than-Think-Administration/dp/1501174169/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1516729024&sr=8-1&keywords=david+cay+johnston

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4163
Location: Nashua, NH

1/23/18 12:59 PM

Many of the rule changes...

...will be tied up in court for years, so I don't expect any permanent damage to be done by them. The lack of ambassadors is problematic, but readily reversible. It will be interesting to see if the next administration can lure back any of the government employees that have left in protest. If Trump does get axed soon, I expect that some of his policies will be immediately reversed by his successor, as everyone in the succession line is a career politician and even the worst of them understand the importance of properly staffing government agencies. Some, like the EPA, will probably still suffer, but most should get back to functional levels.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16693
Location: Portland, OR

1/23/18 1:17 PM

Question: The current Ryan/Mcconnell leader technique of not allowing other than right issues to the floors also a DEM technique historically?

I have no recollection, but seems it must have happened.


Last edited by Sparky on 1/23/18 10:44 PM; edited 1 time in total

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Tom Price
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 428
Location: Rochester, NY

1/23/18 5:20 PM

Breaking News

"JUST IN: Robert Mueller has indicated to Pres. Trump's lawyers that the special counsel’s office will seek answers directly from the president on circumstances around Flynn, Comey firings, @ABC confirms."

3:02 PM - 23 Jan 2018

Also it was reported today that Mueller interviewed Sessions last week. I wonder if his ability to recall has gotten better?

The noose is tightening.

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6420
Location: Westchester/NYC

1/23/18 6:54 PM

Every thread turns into Trump bashing. We can't have much of discussion...

Or there's nothing to discuss?

I can't decide...

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Craig
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 548

1/23/18 9:21 PM

In the case of Trump vs Clinton, I get why people voted for Trump. And for all the shit that's hit the fan since Trump took over, I might even think it's a good thing. I mean, it's a bad thing, but 4 years of Clinton would have been pretty bad for America as well but in a "status quo" kind of way that would have led to another 4 years of bad, and then another 4 etc etc.

What the election of Trump has (hopefully) done is show people how important it is to be aware, to vote, and to question what/who they are voting for.

Consider this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqceHviNBC4&feature=youtu.be

I don't think a single one of those people could have been convinced to vote for Clinton. And I don't blame them. But I don't think all of them would vote for Trump again either, and that's what's good about Trump being in office.

Trump voters don't give a fuck about greenhouse gas, not when they have the life expectancy of an Ethiopian, and when you're collecting cans on the road for 45 cents a pound, no talk about immigrants taking the low paying jobs Americans don't want anyway is going to cut it. So, yeah, you vote for the guy who's going to put up a wall so you don't have to pick up cans anymore.

Can the damage be undone? Locally, maybe. But there's a world stage that used to have a US President standing front and center on it. But now, South and North Korea are taking steps to a healthy relationship without American meddling, China has an economy healthy enough that it doesn't have to export to the USA, and Europe continues to make decisions about world politics and the environment without a US President sitting at the table. The World Leader status is rapidly being diminished as the rest of the world realizes they don't need the USA to make big decisions.

Is that bad? I don't know. I'm Canadian. It might be bad for me. We don't sell much to anyone other than our neighbors to the south.

When we're all sitting around debating the merits of Campagnolo vs Shimano vs 10spds vs disc brakes and the merits of a $5000 bike vs a $10000 bike, it's easy to forget how much of the USA is living hand to mouth. And how Trump was the only choice that made sense in 2016, and may still be the only vote that makes sense in 2020. I still think Bernie would have had a stronger connection to the working class than Clinton. The American Dream is still a strong selling point to most, most are hopeful, most believe they are one lucky break away from being a millionaire, and Trump's talk about making billions as a smart business man is the epitome of that dream. But as he shows time and time again, he screwed over a lot of people along the way, didn't pay honest Americans for the work they did, slept around on all his wives (how Christian is that?), still hasn't released his tax returns, and he's given more money back to the rich than the poor, it's going to be hard to vote for that over an old Jewish man who wears cheap suits and talks directly to people in their town halls and schools, whoever the equivalent to that is in 2020.

One year later;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OGOr_Qh1uo

I still think that Clinton is just about the only person Trump could have beat. And as bad as Trump is, the Democrats still don't have a strong voice to stand in opposition to him as a viable option in the next election. And if every failed promise of Trump can be spun into a Democratic opposition to his vision, and a top heavy government system that wastes millions of dollars investigating collusion that can't be proved, then you'll find him elected again, by a greater margin, he might even win the popular vote this time.

That's probably more than a Canadian should write about American politics.

Campagnolo or Shimano?

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16693
Location: Portland, OR

1/23/18 10:43 PM

I will agree the "This just in" message probably is not for this thread. Better in one of my threads where I uncontrollably post similarly. I have edited my previous post accordingly and apologize.

I would be happy to move it to a new or other thread upon request/requests.

I have always been impressed with what I would consider an unusually high level of decorum between users here. This despite what is usual for internet forums et al.

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6420
Location: Westchester/NYC

1/24/18 7:20 AM

“I still think that Clinton is just about the only person Trump could have beat.”

How could anyone said that when he beat 10 Republican candidates to WIN the Republican primary???

But perhaps this:

“as bad as Trump is, the REPUBLICANS still don't have a strong voice to stand in opposition to him as a viable option in the next election. “!!![/b]

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PLee
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 3606
Location: Brooklyn, NY

1/24/18 9:23 AM

I don't think either party can come together enough to back a strong, centrist candidate.

Mitt Romney might be an interesting possibility for the Republicans, but I don't think he would have any interest.

Democrats have a bunch of interesting almost-theres - Cory Booker, Tammy Duckworth, Kristin Gillibrand, Kamala Harris, Andrew Cuomo - but they all have vulnerabilities.

Plus, I think people will hold off as long as they can from appearing to be interested, or in announcing, to minimize the time their opponents will have to conduct opposition research (as if facts matter anymore) and prepare targeted negative campaigns.

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3201
Location: Springfield

1/24/18 1:27 PM

After 42,43 & 44 Marijuana, cocaine and alcoholism are no longer barriers.

Infidelity: The religious right's loss of the issue expands the field of potential Presidents. Its loss, our gain.

How is HRC is left of center? She's a hawk, not an economic reformer, her gender is her social platform. Basically she was not Trump. That started out as a snarky remark but remember: Part of not being Trump is being highly qualified... 1. Lived in the White House eight years, 2. Senator from New York, 3. Secretary of State.

Sorry Walter, you knew it was going to be a small sample size. Besides, the thread title is question for trump voters - and you asked five!

Therefore by proxy:

is he doing/achieving what you'd hoped?
Mostly, but the obstructionist dems are thwarting real progress
is he taking politics in the direction you'd hoped?
Political discussion is more direct than ever in this age of twitter
is he good for the country?
The economy is up and crime is down
are you hopeful that he's got us on a good track?
Hopeful is not the word, try "happy"
anything else that comes to mind?
dems are underfunding the wall that will be paid for by mexico
the world is finally paying attention to us
north korea has completely changed from an aggressive stance to an open one
there is nothing coming from the Mueller investigation
the deep state in the FBI is being exposed


Brian?

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walter
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 4360
Location: metro-motown-area

1/24/18 2:53 PM

daddy* aint just a 45 voter...

...he* reads like an honest-to-goodness supporter.

Last edited by walter on 1/28/18 8:24 AM; edited 1 time in total

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3201
Location: Springfield

1/24/18 3:06 PM

Touché!

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PLee
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 3606
Location: Brooklyn, NY

1/24/18 3:21 PM

Sorry, daddy-o's responses read like satire to me.

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6420
Location: Westchester/NYC

1/24/18 4:58 PM

Shouldn’t it be:

“dems are OVER-funding the wall that will be paid for by Mexico”?

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3201
Location: Springfield

1/24/18 6:50 PM

Over funding indeed, over the funding. And besides, Mexico.

Trump Lashes Out After Schumer Withdraws Offer On Border Wall
January 24, 2018 (NPR)


Last edited by daddy-o on 1/24/18 7:07 PM; edited 1 time in total

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16693
Location: Portland, OR

1/24/18 7:05 PM

As for the lashing out. I knew it the second I heard McConnell in front of a mike after the continuing resolution any DACA deal was a exercise in stroking.

More of our democracy at work?

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walter
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 4360
Location: metro-motown-area

1/25/18 1:20 PM

daddy*, brian and others...

...how do you reconcile 45's alignment with white supremacist groups and the like, and more broadly his racist views?

Last edited by walter on 1/28/18 8:24 AM; edited 1 time in total

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16693
Location: Portland, OR

1/25/18 1:34 PM

So the Johnson Amendment repeal got removed from the tax bill, good right?

No problem, 45 just executive ordered it repealed.

So Trump voters, are you with DT on this as a good thing? Any why if yes?

Why, before the the continuing resolution for the budget concludes, and DACA vote is done does he pour gas on the fire.. someone will have to explain to me.

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3201
Location: Springfield

1/26/18 7:09 AM

I'll continue as proxy for the base, but for no individual.

How do I reconcile 45's alignment and... views?
It's genuine and it binds part of his base to him.

30% of the electorate will not waver from Trump: his base.
If Trump manages to get 29% of the rest of the electorate he gets a majority.
The math:
100% - 30% = 70%
70 x .29 = 20.3
30 + 20.3 = 50.3 ...% A general election majority. And if he loses the electoral college his current tone in front of microphones will be remembered as his civil tone.

Did you mean how do I personally reconcile his alignment and racism?
In the fervor I tend to remember only the parts that I think make America great.

Being in this character makes me uncomfortable, can I quit now? I've got something to say about dictators being born, not made. And then there's the whole wag-the-dog-for-29% thing. Vote in 2018, primaries and general.

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3201
Location: Springfield

1/26/18 8:45 AM

This morning I woke up to a BBC story from Davos.
It started with Trump saying the NYT story about his decision in June to fire Mueller is "fake news."
It ended with Trump apologizing to Britain for re-tweeting in late November 2017 literal fabrications by radical right group "Britain First." NPR story of the apology, 1-26-2018.

Is this the kind of representation we need in the shark tank of global finance? His treasury secretary wants to drag the world reserve currency in with the hoi polloi.(USN&WR) Is this the team we need in the shark tank?

As for the Johnson amendment:
In character as a short sighted member of the base: "Of course I want my church to be able to get involved politically."

As myself: Tax accountants will be notarizing shell 501.c.3's before the ink is dry. How long before "Church of the Almighty Dollar" appears on donor rolls?

"Why does he...pour gas on the fire?"
That's just how he is. It gets to my point about dictators being born, not made. A point I have not elaborated upon.

Push back against the undue influence of money in our elections. VOTE in 2018.
Competition makes America great: Hail to the Pennsylvania Supreme Court for recognizing and ruling against political gerrymandering. (AP newsfeed) VOTE in 2018.

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