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question for trump voters
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PLee
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 3609
Location: Brooklyn, NY

1/31/18 5:40 PM

We've got to get the census done right, and then get rid of gerrymandering and get the redistricting after the census done right. That's a state-by-state fight.

I'm hoping that we see an incredible groundswell of middle of the road candidates this November. As far as I am concerned, both Jill Stein and Steve Bannon belong in the same padded room together.

If someone can figure out how to start a legitimate middle of the road party, I'm all in.

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ErikS
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 8310
Location: Slowing boiling over in the steamy south, Global Warming is real

1/31/18 5:48 PM

@walter

There is a direct correlation. The country does not vet immigrants as they once did. Of course there are great folks who have come to the country from other places in the world and they have done great for the nation and themselves. The problem is the lack of standard enforcement.

Border security and immigration are directly tied because many who are being called immigrants are actually nothing more than invaders because of the way they came to the country.

All I am saying is scrub those entering the country and ensure they are the right folks. The way that some are saying that all who get here no matter how should be extended the same welcome is wrong and unsafe for the nation.

WRT the bull market starting in 2009, my accounts got crushed in 2008, 2009 was nothing more than a recovery from my 30% loss. I made a full paycheck in growth in my TSP alone last month. I got three paychecks instead of two.

My daughter and I are doing great. We had a little party on 11Jan18 to celebrate one year.


Last edited by ErikS on 1/31/18 5:49 PM; edited 1 time in total

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16793
Location: Portland, OR

1/31/18 5:48 PM

"If someone can figure out how to start a legitimate middle of the road party, I'm all in."

Just where that is is anyone's guess. The middle I mean anymore...


Last edited by Sparky on 1/31/18 5:54 PM; edited 1 time in total

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ErikS
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 8310
Location: Slowing boiling over in the steamy south, Global Warming is real

1/31/18 5:50 PM

Libertarian.

To bad they just put up nuts to run and don't have the money to compete. The platform is pretty good in many ways.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6046
Location: Maine

1/31/18 6:14 PM

Recovery

Well a recovery after a precipitous drop is not exactly self-evident, nor is a sustained 9 year bull market following. Trump stepped into an existing bull market where Obama stepped into a disaster. Sure Trump is boosting short term profits by giving money to corporations and reducing their need to pay for annoying stuff like environmental protection, but I'm not sure that is in the long term interest of the economy or the country in general. And I'm not at all sure the growth will be sustained.

Anyway, happy anniversary! Great news.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16793
Location: Portland, OR

1/31/18 6:18 PM

"not sure that is in the long term interest of the economy or the country in general"

Just makes me think of words like bubble and burst quite honestly. Silly me, something about just after the last GOP administration sticks in my mind...

___
Who wants to weigh in on this excerpt of the State of the... what ever it is actually the state of? ;)

“I call on the congress to empower every Cabinet secretary with the authority to reward good workers—and to remove federal employees who undermine the public trust or fail the American people.”

It reminds me of this, only from a much more problematic pulpit and a more direct approach.

Once Rep. Michele Bachmann:

"I wish the American media would take a great look at the views of the people in Congress and find out, are they pro-America or anti-America. I think people would be -- would love to see an expose like that."

Quack?

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6442
Location: Westchester/NYC

1/31/18 11:05 PM

Libertarian

Libertarians don't have their own agenda. They just follow the Republican all the way.

Don't think it takes magics. Start at the local level. Take out the Tea Party nutters from the Republican side, and the socialists from the Democrats. That's all it takes.

Trump can't do much damage without the tacit support of the cowardly Republicans.

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3223
Location: Springfield

2/1/18 5:46 AM

Along those lines is scope.

Because libertarian voters focus on individual liberties they miss corporate liberties.

Soon enough those corporate liberties encroach on the individual liberties and the voters request government intervention.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6046
Location: Maine

2/1/18 9:21 AM

Release of Nunes memo

I think the sh*t could hit the fan if Trump releases this partisan hack memo over the objection of the FBI Director he appointed. Really, this is remarkable.

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6442
Location: Westchester/NYC

2/1/18 10:27 AM

"Soon enough those corporate liberties encroach on the individual liberties and the voters request government intervention"

The whole idea of libertarianism is to keep the government off private life. But these days, our life is so heavily depend on the service provider corporations. There's no constitutional guarantee of these service provider corporation to keep THEM out of our life.

Sure, you can opt out. Who can afford it though? You can choose to stay out of facebook, not use google, not buy/sell on amazon... good luck with that!

The libertarians will not be asking the government to intervene on the corporation. (or if they do, they won't be "libertarians" no more). But yes, others will be asking for it. Even less relevance for libertarians.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16793
Location: Portland, OR

2/1/18 11:21 AM

"if Trump releases this partisan hack memo over the objection of the FBI Director"

He is going to learn [and whine about it] how the FBI will hamstring him at every opportunity.

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walter
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 4363
Location: metro-motown-area

2/1/18 12:38 PM

"does not vet immigrants as they once did"

please cite one concrete example for how immigrants enter the country legally but are not vetted. just the name of a specific immigration program would suffice to start the discussion.

if you cant, that's fine. it's just an example of how "alternative facts" are so damaging to meaningful political discussion.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16793
Location: Portland, OR

2/1/18 1:00 PM

"meaningful political discussion"

Unfortunately another oxymoron pretty much?

Although we are giving a decent run.

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ErikS
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 8310
Location: Slowing boiling over in the steamy south, Global Warming is real

2/1/18 8:05 PM

Vetting

I lived in AZ, I hunted in the Gleason area. There were immigrants who had no vetting walking through the desert were I hunted. BP even stopped me, I had tags and a dead javelina in my truck, so they had no interest in me.

The nation calls the people I saw immigrants but actually they are invaders. The far left says they are for the invaders not immigrants. They just don't see it. Invaders get them votes.

The invaders were not vetted.

I FULLY support true legal immigrants and open my arms and heart to those who do it right.

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PLee
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 3609
Location: Brooklyn, NY

2/1/18 8:17 PM

Erik - The problem is that when people talk about improving vetting of immigrants, they're not talking about the border crashers. They're talking about visa applicants. And the argument that they are not currently subject to thorough vetting is just false. It is rare that the process takes less than two years, even for refugees. I know of people who have had family reunification applications in process for over ten years.

Fact.

I didn't particularly like George Bush, but he was one Texan who lived by his Christian values when he proposed a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants who have lived and worked here for years, contributing to this country's economy, and paying their taxes. And proposing a worker visa to allow people to come here to work without fear of deportation.

Those proposals embodied the American values that I was taught when I was growing up. Generosity and compassion - two virtues that are nonexistent in today's Republican platforms.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16793
Location: Portland, OR

2/1/18 8:26 PM

Bring us your tired, your poor...

Need to take that off the Statue of Liberty


Last edited by Sparky on 2/1/18 9:01 PM; edited 1 time in total

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ErikS
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 8310
Location: Slowing boiling over in the steamy south, Global Warming is real

2/1/18 8:37 PM

It was never true.

Ellis Island proved that. Amazing they are side by side.

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walter
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 4363
Location: metro-motown-area

2/1/18 8:49 PM

"It was never true...

...Ellis Island proved that."

which ellis island did you visit? i saw exhibits featuring thousands and thousands of tired and poor immigrants seeking a better life in the US, "yearning to breathe free."

any history book shows evidence of the massive percentage of poor immigrants that have entered the US thru the years. my own and my wife's family histories provide first-hand evidence of this as well. #maga

<img src=https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27540763_10213979261947528_3689803685724328912_n.jpg?oh=91b168a6bd80c563ec77d4acd3dc9a9a&oe=5AE77D2C>
<img src=https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27073299_10213979262707547_7911776914356807529_n.jpg?oh=57f644dfc8d5ec51685370a1a7e0c6d1&oe=5B204E9A>
<img src=https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27544621_10213979261147508_5423133049984625608_n.jpg?oh=cca00ad660c56157e5947fa44d055f3e&oe=5B1CE814>

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Anthony Smith
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 840
Location: Ohio

2/2/18 9:26 AM

Trump Election

Was the fault of the Electoral College which did not do its job and prevent a demagogue from taking office.

Being neither conservative or liberal, Republican or Democrat, I describe myself as a Machiavellian Pragmatist, and as such any tilt in either direction too far from the center is to be avoided. I propose that voting should be limited to citizens who are both owners of real property (real estate) and have at least a bachelors degree. They have both the education and enough of a stake in the system to make a reasonable choice on both candidates and policy.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16793
Location: Portland, OR

2/2/18 9:58 AM

Never true?

In history, or your opinion I wanna ask?

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3223
Location: Springfield

2/2/18 10:59 AM

A bachelor of science in a hard science is no guarantee of a political opinion that is based in fact, prompted by skepticism or tempered by analysis. It took until 1970 to declare literacy an unreasonable hindrance to the vote.

The property ownership requirement to vote was eliminated before the Civil War.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16793
Location: Portland, OR

2/2/18 11:19 AM

As far as BS degree for voters:

As a snobby 'higher than that average' person I will spout this: It is important to remember the average IQ in the US is under 100. Smart folks don't know how to not be smart, and you can't fix stupid either. [just typed that in an email on the subject]

To suggest because folks are not smart enough to have a stake in voting/elections we'd have to define with more detail than a degree. I think a certain IQ, a few points below my own of course.

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walter
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 4363
Location: metro-motown-area

2/2/18 12:48 PM

and a high IQ is no guarantee...

...for common sense. and common-sense is no guarantee for good decisionmaking.

that's one helluva conundrum -- a veritable kobayashi maru scenario!

#maga

<img src=https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/27750210_946394732201165_8431043322617023291_n.jpg?oh=859a1369ac4911b7decbb4df70d9b19d&oe=5B1EC1A0>


Last edited by walter on 2/2/18 2:28 PM; edited 1 time in total

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PLee
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 3609
Location: Brooklyn, NY

2/2/18 1:26 PM

And I don't trust IQ tests. That's an admission against interest, BTW, because I tend to score pretty high on them. But every one I've seen, including MENSA tests, seem to rely more on testing one's knowledge rather than their ability to reason. Knowledge comes from experience and exposure, and the ability to remember.

Classic example: pain:bread::chat:____

That doesn't test an ability to reason or think. It tests your knowledge and exposure to French. But stuff like that pops up in IQ tests all the time.

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6442
Location: Westchester/NYC

2/2/18 5:31 PM

IQ, education...

How about a real world test of one’s ability? The ability to contribute by working to support oneself!

Voting should be restricted to those who had at one point or another paid into the tax systems!!!

There’s no guarantee of smart or knowledge. Only the desired to be self sufficient. And the ability to hold down a job, even if it’s sweeping the street or picking up trash.

Only those who can contribute can decide the future of their country.

Oh yeah, each must have filed at least one tax return BY THEMSELVES. That’s a lot harder than getting one of the many fluffy “degrees”!

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