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Left Trek Store without the 50% off Domane.
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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

12/20/17 12:54 AM

Yeah, Calfee!

I forgot that after all these years of living away from California

Calfee used to be the bike that I want to own "when my ship comes in". But I haven't bought another bike for 10 years now. My current bike just refuse to die. They don't even miss much of a beat. So my motivation to buy another bike is very low at the moment.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

12/20/17 1:12 AM

I could never get past the aesthetic of the webs at the lugs or junctions personally. Parlee was my lust bike back in the early 00s.

I knew of folks with them and nary a negative word. And once watched early in a club ride a Calfee rider on one pickup a clip from a budd tow truck cover in his front wheel. It just flipped into the wheel and scooped it up.

After the clip made it up to the fork and took a few spokes out and climbed up to and hit a nipple... SNAP, both legs snapped as he went ass over tea kettle one rev and landed sitting facing forward. That was something.

I recall the crash replacement Calfee offered and he took them up on was generous.

Calfee has a link on their site "Manta VS Trek Domane" right in line with this thread. ;)

https://calfeedesign.com/shootout-calfee-manta-vs-trek-domane-rba/

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5096
Location: Nashua, NH

12/20/17 6:57 AM

I've heard that they're great bikes...

...but they are just butt-ugly. While they're visually distinctive in a sea of similar bikes, it doesn't seem to be in a good way.

As for Parlee, they make nice stuff, but after the way Bob Parlee completely blew Linda off when she tried to talk to him about a custom 'cross frame, I would never buy anything from them. She was explaining what she wanted and he just turned and walked away; he didn't even say a word. I came away with the impression that he's a sexist dick.

An apparently junior employee did try to talk with us and smooth things over, but by then the damage was done. Our money will go elsewhere.

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Rickk
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 528
Location: Montreal

12/20/17 7:41 AM

Ouch - on the depreciation


quote:
My 2008 Scott Addict LTD had a +$10k MSRP new. I got it used 4 years old for 550.00, (frameset) from a sponsored racer, MSRP was $ 7k frameset new.

Thanks for this gem.
I realize that (generally) - a plastic, disposable frame is a rapidly-depreciating item (like so many mass-produced, disposable products these days) and not an appreciating-asset such as (generally) a house or land; however, $7000 down to $550 is indeed sobering, and what short-selling speculators drool over (lol, it's akin to >10x profit over 4 years)!

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

12/20/17 9:33 AM

You can't short-sell a real asset. An asset that has function, because the function is what gives it value. Nor an asset with short lifespan.

Cell phone is a good example of rapidly declining value. Most people here don't think of bikes in that same light. But some bike manufacturer ARE bringing to market "innovative" frameset/componentry using a similarly approach.

Majority cars also depreciate rapidly as soon as they're driven out of the showroom.

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PLee
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 3712
Location: Brooklyn, NY

12/20/17 11:06 AM

Never underestimate the ability of financial engineers to come up with a short sale mechanism. I believe you can short publicly held REIT shares, and some of them are secured by a single property.

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

12/20/17 11:20 AM

True.

Once you monetize the asset into tradable shares, you can do whatever you want on it, futures, options, and you can short.

But if you have to deliver the physical asset, you're just selling, not short selling.


Last edited by April on 12/20/17 11:22 AM; edited 1 time in total

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

12/20/17 11:21 AM

"$7000 down to $550 is indeed sobering"

Some prospective:

But realize the sponsored racer gets framesets for free. And when the new version/model with distinctly new/different graphics is out... Well he was told, we don't want you on the older version, we want the new one scene. He gets the nod to sell it off, and best part keep the coin.

Bicycle Blue book showed the whole bike with a value of $4500.00 in 2016 when I put it up for sale. I was asking $2900.00 upgraded to DI2 fresh hand laced Pacenti wheels. Not a scratch and I did not get one call.

I could probably still get $450.00 for the frameset 4 years later. $550.00 was low then. But as you all undoubtedly observe from my posts, I get deals and that is why so many new bike posts from me.

But yeah, depreciate? you bet. I paid 800.00 shipped for the Series 6 2016 Domane frame last year, it looked unused. And that included a Duo Trap ANT/BTLE pickup, chi chi water bottle cages, and extra set of ceramic BB bearings and the seat mast topper.

That was still over 3k at the Trek store without the topper and nothing else before they ran out.
Of course once the double front/back ISO bike came out these fell fast in price and desire compared to the SL/SLRs.


Last edited by Sparky on 12/20/17 12:29 PM; edited 1 time in total

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Rickk
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 528
Location: Montreal

12/20/17 11:24 AM

@April It was a tongue in cheek comment, perhaps short-selling was the wrong analogy. Sorry

If you're implying mass-produced CF frames (regardless of "innovatiive" technologies such as electric shifting or stiff yet compliant frames...) are "real assets" - comparable to land or real estate, or even certain stocks ... that's fine.

Imho 7 or 10K, down to $550 in 4yrs, somewhat reflects more of a disposable item - rather than a 'real asset', however I may be wrong
:)

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6884
Location: Maine

12/20/17 11:36 AM

Rolling stock

I heard of a retirement age guy who bought a Ferrari and put on a license plate MY401K.

I guess I could try that with bicycles but right now equities are appreciating nicely due to the delusion that Trump policies will be good for the economy.

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Rickk
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 528
Location: Montreal

12/20/17 11:51 AM

Oldie but goodie re. certain hot shares / commodities !
;)
https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/lankawatch/EQ6M-OfYYCw

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greglepore
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1724
Location: SE Pa, USA

12/20/17 12:30 PM

High end luxury cars make bikes look plain silly. I drive a Benz that was $125k new, and now, with 65k on it, its $8500. Price 740/50's or s65 amgs from 10 yrs ago.

There's a $8000 Ruegamer ( handbuilt by a transgender former Calfee employee and at the time the lightest frame around) on ebay at the moment and the high bid is under $200.

I refuse to buy anything new. Really. I wear dead guys Bruno Magli's or Bally-I know folks draw the line at footwear, but I'm fine with more or less unused $400 fine Italian shoes for $20 bucks plus shipping, all day long. Why wear Nike?

I LIVE for depreciation.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

12/20/17 12:55 PM

"handbuilt by a transgender"

Curious why this is part of the narrative of the post. Albeit interesting certainly.

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greglepore
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1724
Location: SE Pa, USA

12/20/17 1:00 PM

'cause I'm a neandrathal?
Google Ruegamer for the whole story, she's not shy about it, nor should she be. It did screw up the business for a while, not for gender discrim reasons but the stress shut it down for a while and it never really bounced back.

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

12/20/17 1:48 PM

@Rickk, no need to apologize.

I'm an IT gal working in Wall Street. I've seen more than my fair share of schemes dreamt up by the finance guys to monetize one thing or another, most of them you never heard of (and never adopted by the market). So I automatically got into the mode of thinking whether this new hair brain scheme has a chance or not.

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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2815
Location: hillbilly heaven

12/20/17 3:07 PM

There are few things that depreciate more than high end bikes. The good thing is we don't buy them as investments, but as life improvers. That said, I doubt I'll buy a new one again.

Even a Moots ti loses over 50% out the door, which is probably the best of any brand.

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PLee
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 3712
Location: Brooklyn, NY

12/20/17 3:27 PM

I've always wanted a Parlee. I kinda like the name . . .

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Craig
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 591

12/20/17 3:33 PM


quote:
Even a Moots ti loses over 50% out the door, which is probably the best of any brand


Which is crazy, because Moots frames change very little from year to year and titanium is supposed to last forever so, why so much less a year later? (rhetorical question)

But, yeah, there sure are a whole mess of nice carbon bikes on eBay for ridiculously low prices. I mean, there's a Colnago C50 full Ultegra mechanical 11 speed and some nice parts for $1550 OBO. And a 10spd DuraAce Colnago Extreme Power for $1900 OBO. You know how much slower I would be on either of these bikes vs. a 2018 Trek Madone 9.9 for $17000 (WTF, really? $17k for a bike?) I don't know how much slower I'd be either, I ride solo and without a computer, for fun and to burn enough calories that I can drink beer and eat the odd donut.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

12/20/17 3:43 PM


quote:
"I've always wanted a Parlee. I kinda like the name"


I am sure 10+ years ago we all commented to you accordingly. I confess no specific memory. [about that anyway...]

I don't know if I have a vague memory or am imagining one at this point in time.. ;)



quote:
Even a Moots ti


A guy wanted to trade me an XTR 2008 27.5 Moots he rode twice. Except he want my item to be calculated @24% MSRP and his @ %60. The two items should be worth the same even though my Addict was 2500.00 more new.

Thus I speculate super top of line stuff first looses 25% once the credit card goes through, 25% more outside the door. And after a few ride 25% of what ever the previous value was left. ;)

I said to the manager at the Trek store "I wonder how the guys who paid 12k last year for the RSL 10 feel about the 6k price". He said little to nothing, and seen this for decades in the bike biz.

He was polite enough not to suggest I was shopping outta my league. ;O Although I'd agree, but 50% off gets me close...

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