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RussiaGate - Coming Attractions
 

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Tom Price
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 398
Location: Rochester, NY

10/31/17 9:07 AM

RussiaGate - Coming Attractions

The first arrests have been made. Who is next?

https://youtu.be/d7Uy0Uznw4E

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 15809
Location: Portland, OR

10/31/17 9:51 AM

Interesting the pleading of Papadopoulos being held from the press until the same day as the arrests of Paul Manafort and Manafort associate Rick Gates??

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6093
Location: Westchester/NYC

10/31/17 12:16 PM

As most of you know, I'm not a Trump fan.

But, I just don't think he's the kind to "collude" with ANYONE.

Personally, I think it's easy to dig up tons of dirt on Trump associates. They're not career politicians. So they probably are not aware of all the rules and broke lots of them! Sure they're guilty as sin. But how much does it really matter?

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 15809
Location: Portland, OR

10/31/17 12:26 PM

"I just don't think he's the kind to "collude" with ANYONE."

I tend to agree with this sentiment. But his zero sum approach trying to benefit from rolling balls could certainly be considered both conspiring and collusion in legal terms/eventualities if I am guessing, which I am.

But, we have to protect 'Democracy' after all... as far DT/POTUS et al. As far as the cronies, he will just pardon most of them anyway. I doubt he'd be afraid of pardons affecting his chance of a second term or give a shit either... I think he is too stupid to be afraid of anything, good bad or different.

I confess I had to look up affect VS effect. ;)

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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 2850
Location: Midland, MI

10/31/17 2:45 PM

MAGA

My wife came up with this: MAGA = Manifort And Gates Arrested,

I tend to agree that Trump is not the collusion type - everything is a deal in which he tries to stiff the other party so "working together" seems out of bounds for him. I expect what we are seeing/will see is just more bumbling and dunce type moves.

The big reveal is whether/how much of this turns out to be illegal. We already know it will be unethical and immoral.

Remember "Trump's Razor": whatever is the stupidest and most boneheaded explanation for the evidence, that is most likely what happened.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 3772
Location: Nashua, NH

11/1/17 5:38 AM

Don't confuse collusion with cooperation

Trump is a schemer and will do whatever he thinks will benefit him, typically with the intent of back-stabbing the other party in the end. He would absolutely collude with someone short-term to gain an advantage. That said, with as disconnected from reality as he is and with his apparent lack of interest in actually learning about anything, it's questionable whether he actually knew what his minions were doing on his behalf. In his case "I didn't know" is likely a legitimate defense.

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 2847
Location: Springfield

11/1/17 7:26 AM

Exceptions to the arms-length rule: Blood relatives. For instance Ivanka's Azerbaijan / Baku project. But she and family won't give him up. But there were lots of witnesses DJT was not there to handle. Lots of slippery incentives for testimony.

Think of the families where she and her husband were raised. Jared's father spent 14 months for witness tampering. Omerta baby.

But staff loyalty? You saw where they replaced a window in the Oval Office with a revolving door (no steps) didn't you? </humor>

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 15809
Location: Portland, OR

11/1/17 7:53 AM

'Baku' in the native language means launder...

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 2847
Location: Springfield

11/1/17 8:32 AM

Anyone else expect a flurry of resignations once the one year tax implication threshold has passed, related to the trusts required to serve in the executive branch?

Meuller is going to build an escalator straight to his office outside the revolving door.

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walter
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 4226
Location: metro-motown-area

11/1/17 8:38 AM

collusion v. cooperation

collusion = cooperation + illegality

if 45's team cooperated with russia and that cooperation was illegal, then it was collusion.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 15809
Location: Portland, OR

11/1/17 10:57 AM

Walter, most of us think this also. But we are gauging the legal eventuality as well. As I intimated, a pass for the leader of democracy likely.

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walter
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 4226
Location: metro-motown-area

11/2/17 7:21 AM

historical parallels, maybe justice will prevail

a long read, but interesting...

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/06/frank-rich-nixon-trump-and-how-a-presidency-ends.html

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 15809
Location: Portland, OR

11/3/17 11:49 AM

I hope my wife does this for me...


http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/17/politics/obituary-falsely-says-trump-impeached-oregon-michael-garland-elliott/index.html



Manafart and Gates, now Podesta, maybe only a little draining, but a good start?? Perhaps Mueller will be the one draining the swamp and not any of the Pres candidates from either side that ever promised it.

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walter
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 4226
Location: metro-motown-area

11/6/17 1:29 PM

the power of the pardon

mueller does all this investigating, with the intent of indicting as many lower lower-level people involved in russigate as possible. normal procedure is to get these people to roll, turn over whatever information they have, to avoid prosecution for more serious crimes.

but 45 has the pardon in his pocket.

lets say kushner gets indicted. knowing that his daddy-in-law will pardon him of whatever, there is no real threat of prison-time and thus there's no motivation to roll over on 45.

that being the case, how does mueller get *anyone* to roll over on 45?

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6093
Location: Westchester/NYC

11/6/17 1:51 PM

Daddy-in-law may pardon his son-in-law. But all non-blood relative know 45 had zero loyalty to his associates (even if he demands total loyalty to HIM). There's very little hope of pardon. They'll roll.

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Jesus Saves
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 1026
Location: South of Heaven

11/6/17 3:47 PM

Last I read was Trump was going to turn on Kushner.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 15809
Location: Portland, OR

11/6/17 4:00 PM

I think only the daughter is safe, even his sons aren't safe most probably imo.

There is something with him and her I can't quite put a finger on. Perhaps something he has... Never mind..

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Tom Price
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 398
Location: Rochester, NY

11/6/17 6:04 PM

Many of the Russiagate potential crimes occurred in NY State. There is a lot of cooperation between the NYS Attorney General and the Mueller Investigation. State charges cannot be pardonned by the president so we should see some major actions even if President Pussy Grabber uses his pardon power.

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 2847
Location: Springfield

11/6/17 7:27 PM

State charges (and statute of limitations) appear to figure greatly into the specific indictments issued against Manafort and Gates. The evidence applies at both levels. Meuller is steeled after the bobbling of Clinton's external mail server.

Early in this administration one analysis of the Presidential pardon indicated it could be delivered as informally as written on a napkin, or as a tweet.

Keith Olberman's latest Reisitance release today is very dense. He makes a case. Pull out your notebook or scorecard.

And don't forget https://lawfareblog.com/

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walter
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 4226
Location: metro-motown-area

11/12/17 6:18 PM

trump's putinfatuation is disturbing

<img src=https://scontent.fdet1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/23380298_1739221502815418_108277709191863639_n.jpg?oh=4a475f6ef8e9b7590e81563722fd06a4&oe=5A986022>

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 3772
Location: Nashua, NH

11/13/17 9:22 AM

He's obviously envious...

...of anyone who can do the things he'd like to do (dictate and pillage), but can't because our system has checks and balances that actually work.

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