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Tom Price
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 505
Location: Rochester, NY

7/28/17 8:16 AM

From a tweet, "John McCain prefers Presidents who weren't captured by Putin.".

Dan, Great highlights.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5096
Location: Nashua, NH

7/28/17 12:25 PM

Dan, you forgot...

...6. Putin retaliates before Trump signs the new sanctions bill.

I guess the honeymoon is over <sniff>. :-(

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3307
Location: Springfield

7/28/17 12:48 PM

Apparently Putin doesn't understand the concept of three co-equal branches of government either.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

7/28/17 12:50 PM

"John McCain prefers Presidents who weren't captured by Putin."

Major Touche!


------
And Sen. Lisa Murkowski WV Rep BTW.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6884
Location: Maine

7/28/17 12:59 PM

Thanks for the correction Spark

>>And Sen. Lisa Murkowski WV Rep BTW<<

Unfortunately it's wrong in at least two respects:

https://www.murkowski.senate.gov/

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

7/28/17 1:02 PM

see what happens when I try to multitask...

Something I remember being better at.. But memory is a whole nutha thing.

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3307
Location: Springfield

7/28/17 1:43 PM

Seriously though, how does reelecting Mitch McConnell and Rand Paul to the Senate benefit the people of Kentucky?

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

7/28/17 8:15 PM


quote:
4. McCain is a great man.

Perhaps he'll beat cancer and run for President in 3 years! You never know.

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

7/29/17 8:09 AM

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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 3234
Location: Midland, MI

7/29/17 11:11 AM

Fair and balanced


quote:
Anything they read or see about Trump that doesn't agree with what they WANT Trump to be, is just falsehoods drummed up by his enemies.


Fox "News", Rush, et. al. have spent the last 20 years telling folks 1) what they want to hear, 2) to deny anything that conflicts with their beliefs, and 3) that it's OK to have the thoughts they have because denying those thoughts is just "political correctness." Reagan was so well liked because he provided absolution for that group. He didn't have to talk about blacks, he could just talk about "welfare queens" and everybody knew what he meant. Trump has taken Reagan's absolution narrative to a whole new level and some people love him for it.

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

7/29/17 11:40 AM

Trump vs Reagan

Reagan to me is the king of "political correctness"! His kind of politics, that is.

He tells people what they want to hear TO FEEL GOOD, without explicitly saying what's "not fashionable".

With Reagan, you have to be able to think to realize he can only achieve his goal by sacrificing something else. By being so smooth, he was able to get away with sneaking all those sacrifices in.

Trump tells people what they want to BLAME, to be angry!

Trump won't accomplish anything first because he had nothing he wants to accomplish anyway. Second, Trump is just a talking head. He only wants publicity. So there's no such thing as bad publicity.

All politicians are public people. They need the press. I felt Reagan used the press well. Trump instead wants to fight the press. He's trying to fight EVERYONE!

He plays victim, a sentiment many of his supporters identify with.

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3307
Location: Springfield

7/29/17 3:34 PM

Kerry: This tired nugget still has some miles left in it.

Welfare Cadillacs!

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Nick Payne
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 2625
Location: Canberra, Australia

7/30/17 2:09 AM

Will the United States ever fully recover from having the orange turd as president...can't see it.

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

7/30/17 4:38 AM

What's there to recover? It's the true state of the country reflected in this election.

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3307
Location: Springfield

7/30/17 6:31 AM

"the true state"

Bunk. (With all due respect of course.)

That election was an anomaly, not without its truths, not without its lessons, but it does not reflect the country as a whole.

Look at the backlash on healthcare. The Congressional leadership failed completely in trying everything to force legislation that defines the term "bad legislation."

In the Senate it appears they had nearly enough votes. But there were Senators whose bargaining position was "I will vote yes only if I can be assured this legislation will not pass."

Two female Senators who know their electorate and John McCain insured the bill would not pass. Many of the remaining yes votes were of superficial solidarity.

I do not believe the United States is out of the woods, we haven't even gotten to the 2018 Congressional elections yet.

But looking at the way the coverage on Fox News has changed, listening to dissent from the center-right, I think positive change is afoot.

As for the world and the U.S., up to now the U.S. has been granted leadership and protector status. Now countries are going through internal crises of their own making from decades of living with a shield and as a result they are acting more independently. The leaders know DJT is not the new permanent figurehead of the U.S. Right now they can fill this partial vacuum with some of their own power.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5096
Location: Nashua, NH

7/30/17 7:26 AM

Agreed

This was a contest between the worst candidates on both sides, which hopefully doesn't portend the future. Hillary was forced on the Democrats by their party leadership (sort of a Bob Dole moment, if you think about it) and Trump usurped the Republicans by taking advantage of a fragmented field and the fact that nobody took him seriously at first. The majority of voters didn't want either of them, but we were stuck with dregs from the bottom of the barrel.

It will be interesting to see exactly what the backlash looks like, as it's as unpredictable as Trump right now. A lot will depend on whether he stays in office and how he exits. It's also highly dependent on whether any of his agenda gets passed, which seems highly unlikely.

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Matthew Currie
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 800
Location: Vermont

7/30/17 9:51 AM

I wish I could disagree with April with greater confidence, but as time goes on I become less inclined to.

I guess I'm feeling a bit pessimistic. Of our four kids (blended), only one is planning a family, and I used to be a bit disappointed by that. Now I'm not so sure. We'll live well until we die, but we're leaving our kids and grandkids a hell of a mess.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

7/30/17 10:33 AM

"What's there to recover? It's the true state of the country reflected in this election."

So I can understand the statement better. If Hillary or Bernie where sitting Pres currently, would that reflect a different state before/during/aft?

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5096
Location: Nashua, NH

7/30/17 12:11 PM

It depends on which one

If Hillary had won, it would be just as divisive, perhaps even more so since the Republicans would be unified against her and their voter base would be even more energized.

If Bernie had been the candidate, he would have won handily, perhaps even with enough of a margin that he could claim a mandate. He's likeable and well-liked, respectable and well-respected. Although many of his ideas are diametrically opposed to the Republican platform, he is someone who would at least attempt to find common ground with them. He actually cares about people, not just about getting their votes by whatever means necessary. In most ways, he's really the "AntiTrump". Although I don't agree with him on many issues, I can't help but like him and respect his honesty and genuineness. He strikes me as sort of the liberal version of John McCain.

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3307
Location: Springfield

7/30/17 12:12 PM

Nick, we don't have your Asia Pacific perspective and "I doubt it" is a pretty harsh assessment. Care to fill us in on what led you to it? I mean my international statement had provincial roots for sure.

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Nick Payne
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 2625
Location: Canberra, Australia

7/30/17 4:02 PM

Well, US prestige and influence has taken a big hit internationally, Trump has alienated allies, and getting any of that back will be a whole lot harder than losing it. Instead of promoting American leadership, Trump just leaves a vacuum that others will fill. For an indication of how he's affecting global attitudes to the US, see, for example, this survey: http://www.pewglobal.org/2017/06/26/u-s-image-suffers-as-publics-around-world-question-trumps-leadership/

Your congress is supposed to act as a check on a rogue chief executive, but there's precious little sign of that happening.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

7/30/17 6:27 PM

Trump sez that is fake news Nick!

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

7/30/17 9:58 PM


quote:
If Hillary or Bernie where sitting Pres currently, would that reflect a different state before/during/aft?

No!

I mean what I meant. The COUNTRY is in a state of division, not compromising. Whoever won would preside over a divided country!

That's not Trump's doing. He didn't divide the country. Perhaps he saw nothing wrong with that and didn't do anything about it. One may even argue he fanned the flame. But he's not the one who created the division. The Tea Party was probably the biggest proponent of that. And their power is evident. Trump is merely the unintended consequence of this divided country.

Would Hillary or Bernie be able to pull the country together? I doubt it. If Obama couldn't, Hillary & Bernie will be even less able to do so.

I hate to say this. But I think both the Republicans and Democrats are burying their head in the sand to the problem of division in the country. (the sand being Trump) That anger had been fomenting for quite some time now. The Tea party turned that into political power.

Instead of acknowledging the issue and face it, both party now have a perfect blame target called Donald Trump. He gave both party another 4 years to continue to hide in the sand.

That's why I could never muster up much enthusiasm to sparky's Trump bashing. Trump's not the problem we need to worry about all that much. It's the fact he got elected that's worth ridiculing. But no one's doing that!

I'm disappointed Trump won. Had another Republican won, we would have a perfect opportunity to see how Republican "govern". I believe they wouldn't have done any better. And they wouldn't have Trump as a punching bag for all their failures. They wouldn't have any excuse come mid-term election. (You know what? Perhaps that's why the Republicans voted for Trump during the Primary: they knew ANY OTHER Republican candidates will simply be the same old same old again! )

When Trump said "let ObamaCare implode". He's actually saying "Let the Republican party implode"! After all, they're the one who couldn't come up with a decent replacement for it!

That is, if the Democrats can get their act together in the mean time. Everybody claims Hillary was a bad messenger. But what's the message she's suppose to deliver? There had been very little she and the party had to offer at all, however ineffective in conveying those "message" one wish to blame HER for!

Republicans (Tea party in particular) had perfected the art of blaming Democrat Presidents. Now they even got into the game of blaming a president of their own party!

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

7/31/17 6:22 PM

And.. The Mooch is both divorced and out of a job? Who can keep up with this comedy?

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Steve B.
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Posts: 769
Location: Long Island, NY

7/31/17 7:50 PM

A pointed comment by Senator Jeff Flake, of Arizona, who's opinions I usually disagree with.

"Who could blame the people who felt abandoned and ignored by the major parties for reaching in despair for a candidate who offered oversimplified answers to infinitely complex questions and managed to entertain them in the process," he wrote. "With hindsight, it is clear that we all but ensured the rise of Donald Trump."
"I will let the liberals answer for their own sins in this regard. (There are many.) But we conservatives mocked Barack Obama's failure to deliver on his pledge to change the tone in Washington even as we worked to assist with that failure," he continued. "It was we conservatives who, upon Obama's election, stated that our number-one priority was not advancing a conservative policy agenda but making Obama a one-term president - the corollary to this binary thinking being that his failure would be our success and the fortunes of the citizenry would presumably be sorted out in the meantime."
He said conservatives were "largely silent when the most egregious and sustained attacks on Obama's legitimacy were leveled by marginal figures who would later be embraced and legitimized by far too many of us."
"It was we conservatives who rightly and robustly asserted our constitutional prerogatives as a coequal branch of government when a Democrat was in the White House but who, despite solemn vows to do the same in the event of a Trump presidency, have maintained an unnerving silence as instability has ensued," he continued. "To carry on in the spring of 2017 as if what was happening was anything approaching normalcy required a determined suspension of critical faculties. And tremendous powers of denial."

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