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Shimano newest Groupo available?
 

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

7/7/17 1:37 PM

Shimano newest Groupo available?

Saw Ultegra 6900? or is it R8000? on the Project One App. Does it mean it is out already, dunno. And I think that looks like the rotor on the TDF disc bike we posted already.

Looks like Sora Level getting the new design, R3000 but is still 9 speed? really? ;)

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3307
Location: Springfield

7/7/17 8:41 PM

500%

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

7/7/17 10:22 PM

Curious why you zoomed in on the 11 speed ultegra cassette?

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3307
Location: Springfield

7/7/17 11:37 PM

Wasn't paying attention

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

7/8/17 3:56 PM

11 Speed 5800 comment.

I stuck a 5800 11 speed on the cheap on one of the bikes [going outta the queue] which I am selling to keep the Di2 groupo.

I pieced it together on the cheap [imagine?] starting with mint $60.00 STI pulls, 35.00 RD, 35.00 6800 FD, $60.00 5800 calipers and $100.00 for 36/52 5800 cranks. All new parts except the [as good as new] STI pulls [just no cables and housings] And $35.00 11-32 Cassette.

Anyway, I test shifted on the stand and a quick loop on the block and parked it in May I think.

Took it out for a quick 15 mile ride today and if I was to review/report. It would be totally positive. I of course can not speak to longevity, but performance is excellent. For this price point it is amazing really.

I did use a Ultegra cassette and FD as noted.

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dddd
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3345
Location: NorCal

7/9/17 12:18 PM

Having built up a couple of bkes using the 5800 gruppo, I noticed that the cable routing and cable quality were a sensitive issue, just like they were on the 10s bikes.
This latest iteration of the top groups (9100 and 8000 so far) have new-design derailers which fortunately are compatible with the former 11s shifters.
The rear derailer gets rid of the troublesome U-turn of the cable/housing, where friction at that location affects the elastic error in the transmission of shifter movement along the cable's entire length.
The front derailer features a revised return-force curve that reduces hand effort, and also has a built-in cable adjuster!!!
These are the most significant upgrades of these gruppos from a functional standpoint imo.
I've seen the 8000 gruppo on sale but without anywhere near the level of discounting that the 6800 group often sold for, so currently it costs nearly double that of the 6800 group.

It would be great if this new derailer design appears in the pre-11s format in terms of actuation ratio, as this might also be a worthwhile upgrade for 9s and 10s bikes.

I note that Shimano's use of a chain-slack-controlling clutch device on their single-sprung-pivot 10s DynaSys mtb derailers sadly never trickled down to any 9s derailer offering, much to the chagrin of hard-charging mtb enthusiasts. This was a problem because Shimano changed the actuation ratio and overall design of their mtb derailers when they changed to 10s, due to mtb's having to deal with more-frequent contamination of the rear cable/housing loop.

Good riddance I say to the cable/housing loop! I still prefer the look of a traditional crankset any day but I will take these newer derailers thank you.

I'm being offered this 2016 CX-Zero from a friend for a grand, the owner took a mild biff on it, tore up her shoulder joint, also broke the derailer hanger, scratched both levers and the derailer and tore up the tape a bit.
It's close enough in size that I think I'll take it. I already made a replacement derailer hanger out of a different one when I found out the hanger is currently still only available from Colnago for $50, and not locally, this so I can at least test-ride it first. As installed it fits the dropout perfectly and now I only need to tap two mounting holes in it before attaching the derailer. This bike would be a good candidate for a pair of the new 8000 derailers, better shifting and I could delete the front's inline cable adjuster.

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dddd
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3345
Location: NorCal

7/10/17 8:50 AM

I finally got a look at the new Sora 3000 gruppo, and I have to say no surprises there, but now with hidden cables.
Similar but more-extensive revisions were applied to Tiagra last year, Tiagra having only grown to 10s in recent years.
Sora is billed only as a recreation/fitness group, not intended for sporting use, so it seems fitting that the cassette have no one-tooth ratio progressions.
Having used a 9s 12-34t mtb cassette on one road bike, I found it perfect for all but paceline work, with much less fanning of the shift levers needed to achieve rapid, significant changes in gear ratio, especially when grabbing lower gears in a hurry as recreational riders are perhaps wont to do.
10s might also be found wanting in terms of achieving lengthy service intervals using less than premium cabling, such as without sealed ferrules, etc, so likely would be disappointing to newbie riders who might not be so quick, or able, to fine-tune their own gear.

The newest 4700 10s Tiagra rear derailer now uses the revised "11s" actuation ratio (or "cable pitch" as Shimano now calls it), so as to require less intensive cable maintenance.
What I might look forward to would be for the Sora group to grow to an even wider-range 10s with the newest derailer technologies applied, both the lower actuation ratio and the elimination of the "friction loop" of additional cable/housing path.
As a recreational road group, it could even manage with a single chainring.

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Kramer
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 121
Location: Richmond, VA

7/11/17 9:08 AM

Tiagra

I picked up a Tiagra compact crank a few months ago for my beater crossbike for $62 from Wiggle or Merlin. It replaced a Nashbar branded ISIS BB compact that was on there (looked like a cheap FSA). It is a a little heavy but I'm slow and my bike is a POS but man Shimano is king of the front chainrings. Shift after perfect shift.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

7/11/17 10:05 AM

The 9s compact double Sora group that came on the Disc Roubaix i had got shifted perfectly.
I've not read about any poor performance as wear accums. I doubt it might hold up like the 105 and above.

Rode the 5800 bike yesterday again in very undulating terrain, lots of gear changes, 100%. Lots of big ring to small [52/36 in this case] with multiple rear pops to get that first gear off the big ring right. Perfect really.

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dddd
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3345
Location: NorCal

7/12/17 9:43 PM

Shimano seems to have invented the shift-assisting chainring back in the late 1970s with their "W-Cut" teeth (essentially two shortened teeth, "clocked" with the small ring's teeth for maximum effect).

In my '86 Jamis MTB, the front XT chainrings shift far better under power than the UG cassette does, and these rings lack any visible features at all, just the result of their extensive testing and not-visible details in the design. It's impressive how well this non-indexed triple shifts with just a thumb shifter!
Riding my Colnago CX-Zero today with the club, it's shifting up through the switchbacks of Norton Grade was flawless, but with only one drop to the small ring needed for a steep section mid-climb. I beat my best time by 25 seconds, 14:35 vs. a previous best of exactly 15:00. Having finally, after two rides, resolved a creaking that I traced to the very long carbon seatpost shaft within the dry seat tube, I am less negative now about this rather stiff and heavy bike, so made the decision to buy it. Even the 30mm-deep, 1900(!) gram Shimano RS31 wheelset has impressed me, but I now have to find a 110mm stem with huge 35mm clamping diameter for it. This bike handles very well at speed.

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