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Am I done with the road?
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greglepore
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1724
Location: SE Pa, USA

6/23/17 8:25 AM

Am I done with the road?

Wed nite, our annual big club "longest day" ride, a "sorta race" fast drop ride of about 50 mi. Slower guys start early.

10 mi. in, car off on right side of road but facing us, bikes everywhere. Luckily, she didn't hit them, they stopped after she went off the road on her side (the opposite way), clipped a tree, shot across in front of the cyclists, barrel rolled, and then impacted a tree on cyclists side head on. Alive, but she got a helicopter ride. 150yds difference and she would have killed a couple cyclists. Apparently a texting or other distracted driving accident.

At the end, 1 mile from finish. Road closed. Fire rescue and ambulance. See cyclists from a splinter group standing. Just being loaded on a stretcher is a young cyclist that normally rides with us but wasn't this particular night, just out on his own. Riding east at near sunset, driver in a van going west never saw him due to setting sun and left turned him. Went to trauma center with fx nose, ribs, scapula, clavicle, ankle. Actually felt for the driver as well, as he was legitimately blinded.

So, I'm pretty shaken. Just bought my s/o a Synapse as well and rethinking that. Its always been risky, but it seems the danger level has increased exponentially. Please be careful out there.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

6/23/17 9:38 AM

The distracted drivers syndrome is very very real.
Epidemic really, syndrome too soft a word.

I pick and choose times and routes accordingly. But still have encounters daily. One time the Gods won't be so helpful and I just cant look every waking second.

I too wonder when I will become an adventure cyclist way more than a roadie..

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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2815
Location: hillbilly heaven

6/23/17 11:36 AM

Its scary out there for sure. I'm even scared driving these days. people turn right from the the extreme left lane and so forth. Combined with the sad shape of our roads these days I don't road ride much anymore. I don't even have a road bike now.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

6/23/17 11:45 AM

"I'm even scared driving these days."

Too true. I avoid it pretty much. I sold the Equinox and stuck all the coin in the bank.

IMO, sticking myriads of devices with GUIs in moving vehicles is BAD BAD BAD and won't get better.

I have to repair the head gasket on the 90s manual shift caravan I stole needing said repair. My new go trek out wagon to go trek off road. ;)

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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2815
Location: hillbilly heaven

6/23/17 12:00 PM

I had no idea they ever made a manual shift Caravan. Good choice since the K car auto they put in them was guaranteed to fail at 65,000 miles.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

6/23/17 1:05 PM

"no idea they ever made a manual shift Caravan"

It is a Plymouth Voyager, sane shiet though. Ity is like a throwback to the 90s for us with the kids and the mini vans. Heck, we had a 2006 Stow/go Touring what ever they call the Chrysler for hound hauling when we moved here.

Rare for sure. Mitsu 2.5 4cyl and 5 speed. I was stoked when I found it. $400.00 plus $100.00 to flat bed it out here to the boonies.

My cheap as shiet bike hauler. Should get about the same 25 MPG avg as the NOX did.

It is quite clean and a folder in the underseat compartment had 1-1/2" of receipts for high levels of maintenance. Like several brake fluid and cooling system flush level. 140k on the clock. They never should have put AL heads on cast iron blocks.

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

6/23/17 2:14 PM

Scary roads

I too, found the road scary even to drive on!

I blame the electronic gadgets that comes with the car. It used to be, if I'm looking for a place to eat, I just keep my eye out as I cruise along. I maybe slightly distracted but still for the most part, my eyes are on the road. Now, I have the option to look DOWN at the dash on this amazing gadgetry that will offer me different cuisine. If I give in to the temptation, my eyes are no longer on the road all the time!

People are texting, making phone calls, etc. "Hands free" doesn't actually means "eyes on the road"!!!

I haven't heard any increase of cycling accidents from people I ride with. But it only takes ONE distracted driver to seriously ruin a cyclist's day!

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dddd
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3345
Location: NorCal

6/23/17 3:05 PM

Around here, I read the police blotter in my local paper and am shocked at how many drunk and drugged riders are arrested within just one mile of my house.
At least there seems to be a focus on this enforcement!
In one distracted-driving incident a few years back, I arrived at an intersection with a green light glowing, but with the woman in front of me just sitting there after the cars in front of her had driven off.
Wanting to make my left at the green, I tapped my horn as I slowed, she bolted forward to make her left turn, then freaked when the light went yellow and slammed on the brakes only to get rear-ended by yours truly. This woman was literally distracted out of her head, as the two of us would have easily cleared the yellow light by this point with her car already over the line.
Didn't even get out of her new Volvo, waited for me to come to her driver's window and asked me if there was any damage. I told her that I could see two pronounced, small indentations the shape of my front tag's hex-bolt heads in her car's bumper cover, and she told me to have a nice holiday, Thanksgiving as it were. I thanked her and drove off with two bent bumper brackets on my lightweight truck, glad that she didn't want to pursue any report/claim.

One good thing about the roads that I and the local rides travel on is that the roads don't allow one much freedom to play with a phone while driving. There has been one notable exception a few years back though when a woman driving her SUV out of the winding Bear River canyon killed a cyclist as she was found to have rounded the corner while texting. She was convicted as I recall.
Another local cyclist was hit and killed by drug-impaired driver who was apparently driving to work at 6:30am on a straight, high-speed section of four-lane Forresthill Road while she was riding in the bike lane with no other traffic around.
I myself was hid hard in the shoulder by the mirror on an overtaking truck several years back, I chased the guy down, then he pulled over! He claimed not to have seen me, that he thought he might have hit a mailbox, even though I was wearing an orange shirt in daylight. I noticed a lit cigarette as a possible distraction, if he lit it, dropped it or got smoke in his eye. He told me he was on his way to work.


Last edited by dddd on 6/23/17 5:12 PM; edited 1 time in total

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Steve B.
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Posts: 769
Location: Long Island, NY

6/23/17 3:06 PM

I had a thought yesterday that I'm almost happy when I notice that a driver is merely holding the phone in speakerphone mode and only chatting, as opposed to completely not paying attention as they text or are otherwise distracted.

I find it's actually worse while driving then cycling. I car commute 25 miles each way into Brooklyn, NY and see way more really bad driving and close calls. I tend to bike on roads that are not used much by car commuters, or I choose times that are not during the worst of rush hour.

My bike commute has half of it's 27 mile distance on dedicated bike lanes, bike paths or a boardwalk on the beach, so I'm minimizing as much as I can the interaction with cars.

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lrzipris
Joined: 04 Mar 2004
Posts: 532
Location: Doylestown, PA

6/23/17 5:45 PM

Besides the distractions of phones, computers, GPS, etc., there is, around here--an affluent region--what I suspect is a sense of entitlement: I'm on the road, and everyone else is in my way.

But I'm riding less, anyway, because I've discovered the joy of kayaking, where I might drown, but I won't be hit by distracted drivers.

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3307
Location: Springfield

6/23/17 6:46 PM

One thing that gets me about most of the hand held devices is their glass takes a lot of concentration to read through. You need to completely change your mental and optical focus to use them. I've given up on using my phone for music, it was worse than texting, between the layers of poorly engineered interfaces, the glass, the text, the menuing, how they interpret the headers DB to deliver artist/genre/title/album. I know, buy a 2013 and use bluetooth etc.

A while back a flyer in the AT&T bill had a campaign logo, basically "Don't text, it can wait." The rest of the page was an ad for a Ford with 3G connectivity and screens.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

6/23/17 7:01 PM

"I've given up on using my phone for music,"

Two words, playlist and shortcut. Unless this is a Droid thing...

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

6/23/17 7:23 PM


quote:
I've discovered the joy of kayaking, where I might drown, but I won't be hit by distracted drivers.

The amount of drinking in the boating world may surprise you. You could be hit by a motor boat with a drunk captain just the same.

Sorry to bring the bad news, as a long time kayaker in the crowded water around New York Bay and Long Island Sound. At least on the road, there're lane. On water, boats can come at you from every directions.

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3307
Location: Springfield

6/23/17 8:16 PM

Playlists, they just didn't catch on with me in the car. Bluetooth headset doing chores, they're great. Stringing podcasts together, way great. RSS stinks.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5096
Location: Nashua, NH

6/24/17 6:41 AM

"What, me worry?" (apologies to Alfred E. Newman)

No form of active recreation is without risk; you either choose to worry about it or you don't. My approach is to take reasonable safety precautions, then focus on enjoying the activities rather than worrying about things that are beyond my control. If we were to give up on every activity just because we might get hurt by some irresponsible moron, none of us would every get off the couch. I refuse to live that way. Worst case, I'll end up as a case of "at least he died doing something he loved". I'd rather that than to timidly live in fear.

I certainly don't have a death wish, but I don't fear dying, either. It's going to happen eventually and it's just a matter of when and how, so why stress over it? Enjoy your life while you can, it's the only one you've got!

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3307
Location: Springfield

6/24/17 7:15 AM

Touché, but, the people you leave behind, "died so young," senseless loss to distraction/inebriation - just saying.

--Boating and drinking: shocked!
--"At least... there are lanes... on the water they come from every direction": well played

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6884
Location: Maine

6/24/17 7:31 AM

"Me read Mad"

When I was a kid my brother used to say I looked like the great Alfred E.

I have very little issue with cars where I ride so I'm not worried about them, though I know distracted driving exists and I pay attention to what I'm doing. Since my busted leg I'm a little more concerned about going fast downhill, but that's because I REALLY don't want to fall on it again, not concern about cars. But if I saw a lot of problems with cars I could change.

I need to "dip my toe" into the sea kayaking waters this summer as I need to get some instruction/experience prior to a trip I have booke4d for next year which will involve some. Should be fun!

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

6/24/17 7:35 AM

On the one hand, I agree with Brian. After all, driving is just as dangerous and we do it a whole lot more. So cycling on the same roads should be no different.

On the other hand, those of us who are into wilderness persuite have totally different mind set. Out there in the back country, it's my witts against the element, which is the challenge I choose to embrace. Not some drunk boat owner or inattentive drivers running me down. That does feel senseless, enen though I would be equally dead in both cases.

Third, deep down, we don't fear death. We fear injury far more. Especially the kind of injury that makes it impossible to participate in "less dangerous" activities. A bike accident that leaves one in a wheel chair means no more kayaking, for example. THAT, is what give me the pauses.

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greglepore
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1724
Location: SE Pa, USA

6/24/17 12:45 PM

Two great lines by Mike Cooley of Drive By Truckers-"living in fear is just another way of dying before your time" and "we've been this close to death before, we were just to drunk to know it" :)

I do agree with Brian. I'm fine with risk. I'm ok with nature's randomness. I'm not ok with dying because someone is shuffling the latest Kendrick Lamar album.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5096
Location: Nashua, NH

6/24/17 2:39 PM

Dan, April & Greg

Dan, I don't have a lot of issues with drivers around here, either. Even down on the Cape, where the place is jam-packed with clueless tourists, it's not that bad. You get the occasional moron who stops in the middle of a blind section of road to take in a view or the aggressive idiots who just have to pass you even when you take an entire lane for your own safety, but it's really not that bad

As for kayaking, there are a lot of good paddlers in the Portland area. You may also want to check out the North Shore Paddler's Network (NSPN.org), which is based in the Boston area, but has members from CT to ME. If you have any questions, I'm happy to help. If you get bored and need a new project, go here: www.greenlandpaddlebook.com ;-)

April, I completely agree that it's the risk of serious injury that's the biggest concern. If you die, there's nothing to deal with, no pain, no suffering, no disability. If you get seriously hurt, you have all of that along with the psychological damage and frustration that comes with it.

Greg, I didn't mean to imply that I'm in any way OK with irresponsible drivers injuring and killing people, I just don't worry about it. The police and courts need to take a much harder line, particularly when it comes to drunken and distracted drivers. Particularly with the former, it happens all the time that drunk drivers who are not incarcerated go out and do it over and over. It seems to be almost epidemic in MA, as there seems to be very little punishment until someone dies and even then it rarely seems like enough.

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Steve B.
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Posts: 769
Location: Long Island, NY

6/24/17 5:33 PM

Big issue currently is hit and run,

NOBODY who's hit a pedestrian or cyclist seems to stick around, they all bolt and wait for the cops to find them. If they're drunk, proving it is hard. What's so odd is they almost always get caught, as there are cameras everywhere. Local legislators are trying to get state laws passed that if you leave a scene with an injury involved, the penalties become much more severe then current. It's currently a felony, but not much penalty.

Apple is supposedly introducing features in iOS 11 that allows texting and phone operation to be disabled if the device is connected to a car via BT. I could see a parent control function that would lock out the ability to turn off BT on a kids phone, as well as the ability to make or start a call. You would have to stop and turn off the car for the device to work. Maybe a step in the right direct.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6884
Location: Maine

6/25/17 6:45 AM

Cool paddles Brian

But above my skill set and I think I'll try to learn how to paddle before learning how to make paddles....

I signed up for the most convenient way to get some basics, a one day course at Bean. Plus I know a paddler who will show me some stuff. I just need to get some basics - what I'm doing on the trip will be pretty basic, supervised, probably in a tandem, and I doubt they will let us out in any challenging conditions. But it will be in Antarctica so I guess I don't want to dump the boat if I can avoid it....

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lrzipris
Joined: 04 Mar 2004
Posts: 532
Location: Doylestown, PA

6/25/17 1:13 PM

FWIW, I found the LLB class of only modest usefulness; I've gotten vastly more information, advice and guidance from several kayaker friends. More helpful than the LLB class are the weekly LLB meet-ups, where I can kayak with those friends. The Freeport store must have meet-ups where you can get some practice before your trip.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6884
Location: Maine

6/25/17 2:55 PM

Sure

Yeah, I'm sure paddlers can convey more stuff in an informal setting but the Bean thing is a convenient place to start for me - nearby and I'm actually doing water quality monitoring this summer from the dock at the Outdoor Center where the kayaking happens. After the intro I'll probably go out with the paddler I know who offered to help (he is on my WQ team). Although he prefers paddle boarding at this point.

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greglepore
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1724
Location: SE Pa, USA

6/25/17 4:11 PM

The Apple idea is bunk. I use hands free bt all the time, the texters will just turn off the bt and the phone never connects to the car.

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