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Di2 Updating components
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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 15363
Location: Portland, OR

5/11/17 8:21 PM

Di2 Updating components

I got the PCE1 interface so I can update firmware and diddle custom options etc.

I felt so unnatural plugging a bicycle into a computer. I feel shame. ;) That feeling when I had the shop do it just was not there. And using it as a working system once setup, no problem.

I was not so lucky with the second setup as the first which worked plug and play. Albeit I did not like the default X/Y switching for the rear DR. I rode it that way to the shop for the diddle, and they updated it all for 20 space bucks.

They now have it on their services list and $30.00 for simple task, and more for all firmware updates. Which this second setup needed, would not work at all when plugged/non Played! ;) So I figured to put that coin toward the interface. Chainreaction $134.00.


I feel dirty somehow. ;O

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Rickk
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 473
Location: Montreal

5/12/17 4:39 AM


quote:
I feel dirty somehow. ;O


Repent
... for the flesh is weak ...


;)

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greglepore
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1553
Location: SE Pa, USA

5/12/17 6:44 AM

Why did you need the pce1? do you still have the old style front junction?

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 5651
Location: Maine

5/12/17 6:50 AM

Won't be an issue for me

I'll feel accomplished when I get a battery recharged.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 15363
Location: Portland, OR

5/12/17 11:18 AM

"Why did you need the pce1? do you still have the old style front junction"

Yes, I like the small ew67_a-e front junction for 35.00 each, and external batteries for 39.00. So for cost cutting reasons as well. Plus I read the app via bluetooth does not do something you'd need to use the hard app for, I forget what it was now...

________________EDIT
"BT apps also brings almost all of the service, setup, and diagnostics functionality that had been reserved for the PC Di2 software"

I will look and see if I can remind myself and update the thread.

"More detailed diagnostics, such as hardware troubleshooting"
________________________/EDIT

I thought of doing the bluetooth mod for android app to do programing. But it meant two new front junctions and the internal batteries for compatibility. x2 with two bikes now, so just making it work cheaping out, [attempting].

Just decided not to pay the shop every time, not to mention the trips.

Also, dunno if the app via BTLE would have done all the firmware diags I encountered with the second install. The versions in the components were all over the place due to using NOS parts within minimum compatibility.

Side note, I had got a sm-btr1 mount [1st version ext batt] for free with short mount. When it did not work with the new parts and I tried the sm-btr2 on the Scott and it worked. Then I got a sm-btr2 for 25.00 with the long mount [will use long mount on the Scott loosing my DIY ad-hoc mounting] to remedy, but it also did not work due to firmware. The sm-btr2 on the Scott worked PnP originally, so I guessed wrong on that front. Still learning. ;)
_____________
Greg, did you read on the Synchro Shift?? Now you can used the right shifter to do all the front/rear shifiting on a 2x11 setup and use the left shifter buttons for your other BTLE devices, like your Garmin ;)

"Synchro shifting takes the possibility of rider error out of the equation when using a 2x11 system."

Where is my snickering Muttley emoticon? ;}

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 3579
Location: Nashua, NH

5/13/17 3:52 PM

Taking a small sip of the Shimano Kool-Aid

As much as I rag on Shimano, I recently found a killer deal on Niner BSB9 RDO 5-Star build that I couldn't pass up, and bought it yesterday. It comes with Ultegra Di2 and R785 levers / disk brakes. Of course my timing is as impeccable as usual, as Campy just came out with their hydro road components this week. Who knows, with my last 'cross/gravel bike, the Dura-Ace parts ended up on Linda's road bike. Perhaps the Di2 will eventually as well.

Regardless, I rode it today and although it's going to take time to get comfortable with it when riding off-road with full-fingered gloves, it works as well as I expected it would whenever I press the correct button.

One thing I need is the BCR2 charger for the internal battery (the seller had two Di2 bikes but only one charger, so he kept it after charging the bike for me). Has anyone seen any deals on these things? The cheapest price I've found on it is 70 bucks.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 15363
Location: Portland, OR

5/13/17 6:01 PM

Did he give it to you fully charged at least? Should last quite a while unless you shift continually, especially up and down front a lot. ;)

Did you try chain reaction, merlin bike and probikekit all UK for good price on the charger.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 3579
Location: Nashua, NH

5/14/17 10:54 AM

Yeah, he charged it overnight...

...consequently, I'm not in a panic to get the charger, especially since I use my road bikes most of the time.

I've checked extensively online and the prices overseas aren't any better than they are here, unfortunately. Chain reaction does have a $25 [edit] discount on an $100 purchase, so I'll probably end up buying a few more items and using that discount.


Last edited by Brian Nystrom on 5/14/17 12:04 PM; edited 2 times in total

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 15363
Location: Portland, OR

5/14/17 11:40 AM

"Chain reaction does have a $25 off off on"

"off off on" ? ;) Although I think I get the drift...

And free shipping as well. I just got the PCE1, 11-32 105 cassette and 11s Chain. The PCE1 and cassette prices un-matched by a good margins. Not so much on the chain, but for 7.00 over the Ultegra I went with the hollow pin XTR/DA chain. Oddly the Ultegra chain overseas is more than here.

Anyway $206.00 for the 3 parts and the shipping was fast, just lucky in that.

The 105 cassette is for the 11s Scott to sell off, so I do not have to give away a new Ultegra 11s cassette with the sale bike.

The Scott Addict with new 105 11s Group I cobbled together for dirt, even 175.00 lower than UK 105 prices. Putting some of this Trek and Di2 costs back in the kitty.

So when I am done I 'should' just have the Madone and Domane as Di2 Ultegra as far as plastic bikes go.

Keep us posted on the RDO, I understand they are highly rated by end users.

I also thought about the RDO seat post for the Madone before I pulled the trigger on the P6. FYI, RDO post also highly rated...

Can I get a Yada?

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 3579
Location: Nashua, NH

5/14/17 12:48 PM

OOPS!

I fixed the typo and put [edit] in there so people wouldn't think you were crazy...or craziER. ;-)

I got a decent ride in on the BSB yesterday, on the trails near home. It's everything it's touted to be, light, stiff and responsive (I've made it heavier by switching to fatter rubber - Conti Cyclo X Kings - and a somewhat klunky FSA MTB stem, that I will replace shortly). There is a lot of clearance around these tires, which measure 38mm, so it looks like I could probably fit 45mm tires should I want to (I have a set that won't fit on my Pinarello).

The carbon wheels accelerate noticeably quicker than the heavier alloys I've been riding. The handling is absolutely superb; it's quick, but intuitive rather than twitchy. I had no issues with it at 24mph on bumpy/loose downhills. The Niner RDO seatpost takes enough sting out of the rear end to make it pretty comfortable.

The Thomson Cross carbon bars have a bit of give to them, which I like. I need to double-wrap them to add some cushion, but they're not too bad with the stock tape (made by Fizik, I believe).

I don't know if I'll get used to the shape of the Di2 lever bodies/hoods, as I really prefer the wide base of Campy levers. I may build them up with some bar tape or something to provide a more hand-filling grip.

I had a lot of "fun" with the brakes, mainly because I needed to switch them so the front is on the right. Swapping the lines is actually quite easy, but although I gained some length on the rear line, the front was too short. That necessitated some digging around to find a source of hydraulic tubing and fittings, as I didn't have any on-hand. Ultimately, the LBS nearest to me sold me a new-take-off Shimano generic MTB brake/lever/line for ten bucks, plus the "olives", inserts and bleed funnel. From there, I made a real mess with mineral oil all over the place (I'm really glad it wasn't DOT brake fluid!). Unfortunately, I must have gotten some on the rear rotor when I was bleeding the brake and didn't notice before I put the pads back in. When I went out for the ride, the rear brake was making a lot of noise, but not much friction. I got lucky, because cleaning the pads and rotor with brake cleaner actually did the trick and the brakes are fine now (perhaps another benefit of mineral oil). BTW, if you need mineral oil brake fluid, forget the hyper-expensive Shimano stuff. VWs and Audis use mineral oil fluid and you can buy a liter of it for less than the price of 8 oz of the Shimano stuff. It's green, which make it easy to see when you've bled out all of the red Shimano oil.

The weather's going to be lousy for the next couple of days, but I'll get back out on it ASAP.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 15363
Location: Portland, OR

5/14/17 1:02 PM

Tires, I have come to love the Speed Ride 42s for similar riding and reasons. 38-9mm mounted. On a extra set of Wheels for the Disc Strong and currently mounted on the Chile Con Kermit as well.

I find they are clearing them out folding for 15.00 each here and there, so I have 3 pairs for future use. I like them better than the Nano 40mm TCS even though the TCS has the tubeless thing. I don't need tubeless pressures for off piste with monster CX use. I will just take the 29er when it get to needing low pressure/tubeless and non hard pack single track.


Sounds like you are well on you way to having some real fun/blasts with the RDO.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 15363
Location: Portland, OR

5/14/17 2:01 PM

I should add this:

The more expensive dedicate service tool (SM-PCE1 PC Interface) must be used to upgrade the firmware on the external battery/mount. The external battery and battery mount can not receive firmware upgrades via the SM-EW90 Front Junction A and the SM-BCR2 PC Interface/Battery Charger.

From: http://carltonbale.com/shimano-di2-everything-you-need-to-know/

The FD trim adjustment also covered on this page, well a lot if not everything is covered on this page.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 3579
Location: Nashua, NH

5/14/17 3:28 PM

I have the internal battery...

... so the BCR2 will do everything I need.

I just checked into the Speed Ride 42s and they're really similar to the Challenge Gravel Grinder 38s that I have on the Pinarello at the moment. The Conti center tread appears to be a bit thicker and blockier, where the Challenge center is a coarse file pattern. The edge lugs on the Gravel Grinder are more pronounced, so essentially there's more "contrast" between the center and edge tread. I have no idea if either design is better than the other and they weigh about the same, so there's not much to choose between them. FWIW, the reviews of the Gravel Grinders are better.

Carleton Bale's site is certainly informative. Once I get the charger and can connect the bike to my laptop, I plan to explore the limits of the button setting customization. I want to determine if it would be possible to create "pseudo-Campy" style shifting by mounting climber buttons on the insides of the levers - where Campy "mouse ears" are - then programming all of the buttons to function in the same manner as Campy. If it looks workable, I'll need the 5-port junction box too, but it would be worth it to have similar functionality on all of my bikes.


Last edited by Brian Nystrom on 5/14/17 3:51 PM; edited 1 time in total

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 15363
Location: Portland, OR

5/14/17 3:41 PM

Walter had got the Speed Ride 35s, more akin to a CX size mounted. I do not recall if he mounted and reported on them on the MajorT steed...

He is one busy Mamma Jamma of late juggling houses/moving/renovation and like that.... He/They. ;)

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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2348
Location: hillbilly heaven

5/14/17 4:45 PM

The electronic group discussions have dropped me. I have no idea what the discussion is about.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 5651
Location: Maine

5/14/17 4:58 PM

Me too Dan

Stick with eTap - click right, upshift; click left, downshift; click both, front shift. And keep the batteries charged. I think that's about it.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 15363
Location: Portland, OR

5/14/17 5:28 PM

Easy for you to say, you got yours turn key. ;) I am self cobbling, thus get into tasks the shop does for end users.

I enjoy the challamges and saving the coin both.

Once I am done, like at the shop, unless I want to diddle buttons to do something different, I am done. Unless I want it to shift two or 3 at a time, or run the gears faster or slower on a button hold... in other words leave well enough alone. Which I do not believe is in my DNA

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greglepore
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1553
Location: SE Pa, USA

5/15/17 6:55 AM

you want the "sprinter" buttons, not the "climber switch", but you knew that.

If you like a beefier grip, try the Hudz hoods, they have finger grooves on the lower hood and are consequently bulkier. Not sure if they have them for hydro levers yet.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 3579
Location: Nashua, NH

5/15/17 7:45 AM

Actually, I wasn't sure about which buttons

If I do go this route, the buttons will only need to perform one function (upshift the rear on the right, downshift the front on the left) as they do on Campy levers, so as you suggested, the sprinter buttons would be more suitable.

Thanks for the tip on the Hudz; I hadn't thought to check them out. I like their Campy hoods, so perhaps the Shimano ones would do the trick. They don't list one currently, but I emailed them to see if they're going to be making them.

Dan, there is considerable customization that can be done to eTAP, too. Being wireless, it should be less complicated to work with than the wired systems, although their "Blips" buttons are wired to the levers, like the Shimano buttons.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 15363
Location: Portland, OR

5/15/17 8:35 AM

I have both the sprinter and climber switches. Climber on the Scott and Sprinter for the setup going on the Domane is the plan.

Is there the 3rd port on the hdyr Shifters for the sprinter switch, I'd have to look at the compatibility chart. I can say the way my second groupo got born was a deal on the ST-6870 STIs with the third port [for 164.00], and motivation due to sprinter switch compatibility.

The 1st Di2 group was born due to the deal on the ST-6770 STIs [$99.00] which will do 11s, but do not have the 3rd ports for the sprinter switches. So the 1st set up has 6770 Shitters and thus are not compatible with the sprinters.

But I like the climber switch just fine after I reversed it so it is mounted facing forward/low. I found using it with my thumb facing reaeward the way it is meant to be used problematic. When on the tops if it got touched at all I was clumsily shifting when I did not mean to. Unlike the STI buttons which are tactile and somewhat stiff, the switches are way light and sensitive to the touch on the climber. Which I found bad for thumb and good for index finger use personally.

So with the pod mounted forward and facing about 4:30 my index finger use to me is much better. And no constant thumb unhooking/re-hooking on the bar top.

On the sprinter switches, you can splice in with additional switches as there is no logic to them as in the climber pod. Which is why the pod is bulky.

I saw a splice switch adding hack using cat eye remote buttons I may do to add more remote for the sprinter switches on the Domane. Or I may just use both on the Domane as I really like the index finger use frankly.

...
I started thinking when I pull the 1st Di2 setup off the Scott to putting it on the disc Strong. I had it made ported for it after all.

I wonder if the front Ultegra DR will handle a 28/40. And then a 36 or 40 top rear with a Wolf link and the GS Di2 rear DR... I digress...

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 3579
Location: Nashua, NH

5/15/17 11:05 AM

I'm not sure about the front derailleur

I strongly suspect that it will require one of the MTB front derailleurs. The specs on them seem strange in that the 2x front is only rated to handle a 10 tooth difference, which you don't see on typical 2x setups. The 3x version will handle up to an 18 tooth difference, which is at least close to the typical 20 tooth difference common on 3x setups.

Perhaps I'm just misunderstanding the chart.

Do the Sprinter switches have reasonably stiff springs in them?

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 15363
Location: Portland, OR

5/15/17 11:25 AM

"Do the Sprinter switches have reasonably stiff springs in them?"

Not having used them on the bike yet [discalimer], they seem 'slightly' more tactile to me than the climber buttons. Having said that, they poke though a hole in your bar tape, thicker tape and certainly a double wrap could/should/would[?] have them in a recess. This might require a compression of the surrounding tape to actuate, thus be less tactile in function depending on the tape and thickness etc.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 15363
Location: Portland, OR

5/15/17 1:54 PM

If your RDO has ST-R785 levers, it does not look like the SW-R610/Sprinter switches are compatible.

http://e-tubeproject.shimano.com/pdf/en/HM-CC.2.11.1-01-EN.pdf

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 3579
Location: Nashua, NH

5/15/17 4:03 PM

It figures...

...that my only option would be something that's much more expensive, the SW-R9150 climbing shifters and the SM-EW90-B junction box.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 15363
Location: Portland, OR

5/15/17 4:54 PM

If you are creative and handy there are published hacks wiring the cat eye remotes to the climbing switch. Both along with the original button pod and just the little logic board wrapped under the tape using only the cat eye remote switches.

The TT guys at the slowtwitch forums hack Di2 like there is no tomorrow.

But the facing forward and under work great IMO.

I had a pic I just marked it up with a yellow circle.


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