12/7/16 8:38 AM

Pondering another bike and looking at the new geometries for carbon bikes, which seem to be race or endurance, e.g., Trek's H1 or H2 etc. The endurance bikes (Bianchi Infinito, Domane) have a shorter top tube and longer head tube (or stack or whatever). The racier ones, like H1 (Madone RSL) seem about like what I ride now with considerably lower bar height.

With the H1 type bikes, is there much ability to raise the bars with spacers? Too many would look dorky of course, and I may be able to ride the low bars OK, but I'm wondering how much flexibility there is.

Not sure why I would want a shorter top tube, even for endurance riding (of which I do some).

I would try out anything before buying, but any thoughts on these new (to me anyway) paradigms?

12/7/16 9:14 AM

Knowing either the frame size, TT length and seat tube angle, or the stack and reach you prefer would be helpful.

One option I've used is a stem with less drop, in the 0 to -6 degrees range, as opposed to -17. That reduces the need for spacers. You can even run the stem with a positive angle, but while it works, it looks funky.

Some racing frames come with one tall, tapered spacer (20-30mm) that can be removed if you want to "slam the stem", but really helps for folks like us. My SuperSix HiMod has a 30mm dome-shaped spacer (same diameter as the head tube at the bottom, tapering to standard spacer size at the top) and I run an additional 25mm of straight spacers above that. The dome-shaped spacer looks like it belongs there (almost an integral part of the frame), whereas a similar stack of straight spacers would look odd. With a tapered steerer carbon fork, there's no discernible flex with this setup.

I like a slightly shorter reach on my 'cross bike, as it makes it easier to maneuver. On the road, I prefer a more stretched, classic road position, albeit a couple of inches higher than in my racing days.

12/7/16 9:41 AM

That's helpful. Some of these bikes, like the Madone RSL, are so integrated I'm not even sure how much room there is for spacers, and it has a one piece bar/stem, so it may be love it or leave it :) That's an extreme example of course.

I'm not really looking for precise fitting advice, but FWIW my Sachs I think is about 58.5 effective seat tube, 57.5 effective top tube, 130 stem. I think the bars are about 2" below the saddle. The 58 Madone RSL is pretty much exactly the same (with the same stem extension) except for much lower bars. So I'm not sure either about bar height flexibility, or how I'd like lower bars (I'm perfectly comfortable in the drops, but I usually ride on the hoods). I'll see what the LBS/Trek Dealer says, and maybe slam the bars as best I can on one of my road bikes and see what it's like.

Also interested if anyone has made a change to either geometry (shorter tt/reach for endurance, lower bars for race) and how they like it.

12/7/16 10:02 AM

Bianchi Infinito test ridden and passed on for a reason that makes it good for you actually. The 59 has a 57.5CM TT, I need 58-59TT [58 the absolute shortest]. It was my fav among Roubaix, Domane in ride quality in spades. So definitely throw a leg over one in your process. Not my first time fanboying the Infinito here, just do a search.

If it helps, my 60CM H2 Madone has a -6 stem and one 10mm spacer and the bars are 2.75" below the saddle. 15 years ago that would not work for me even without the 10CM spacer. And to me a -17 don't look right on these newfangled semi sloping geoms either.

I should say with my inseam of 34" and 68mm BB drop. I use deeper drop bars with non ergo curves in the drops FWIW.

A stem with no positive rise on a road bike looks even wonkier than 3-4CM of spacers. ;)

I'd mention the new bars offerings all have much shorter reach than what you may be used to and are using.

The two last carbon bars I bought are on the Addict and Madone, they are 65 and 75mm reach.

This works better for me personally, longer stem and shorter reach bar gets the tops further away for my long femurs.

In context, as bar height and reach interact:

12/7/16 11:07 AM

Googling around a bit, it looks like you can put a number of spacers (nice interlocking aero ones) on an H1 RSL if you wish, plus I could probably ride a 60 OK which gives another 2 cm of stack. So we'll see.

57.5 is the shortest tt I have used, but with the 130 stem it works great for me.

12/7/16 12:15 PM

I wish you where here, I'd put you on my H2 60CM Madone for ride.

"57.5 is the shortest tt I have used, but with the 130 stem it works great for me."

With what reach bars typically I wonder... Also, compare those bikes STA. If steeper and shorter on the TT you may run into trouble. Because you are going to use a determined setback regardless of STA, right?

Also, the HTA on the Madone is steeper than the Infinito and Domane. I will mention the newer Madones have smaller rake and more steep front end to achieve a trail spec. It takes me a few miles to get used to the feel after getting off several other bikes [Addict, Strong, Reynolds 753) which IMO have a more linear neutral feel from 0-20+ MPH. May or may not go unnoticed by you.

Just factor bar reach, folks skip over this it seems.

Probably does not apply, but when I upgraded my first Strong from 9Speed Dura Ace STIs to 10s, I had to put a shorter stem on, same bars. Noticeably difference reach on those STIs comparatively.

12/7/16 7:33 PM

That's a really critical component in conjunction with the TT length. Luckily for people who ride the frame sizes we do, the math is pretty easy, as a change of one degree in STA changes the effective top tube length by almost exactly 1 cm.

12/7/16 8:19 PM

Basically all the road bikes I ride are 73, plus the RSL and Infinito.

And I'm well aware of bar reach, but I'm not going to design the bike around the bar.

One thing I'll say, the Infinito is a hell of a lot cheaper!

12/7/16 8:44 PM

"but I'm not going to design the bike around the bar"

Just the stem length, which is the easiest fix if yo get it wrong.

When I test rode the 2013 Infinito, I asked for and watched him put 120 lb in the 23mm tires. I wanted the worst it would offer ride wise. And it absorbed road vibration better than any other bike I have ever ridden to date. I wanted it, but between sizes again. Got the Roubaix, and we all know how that worked out, but it fit really well. ;)

12/7/16 8:59 PM

Ha ha not with the RSL with its one piece bar/stem that costs more than a cheap bike. But yes I would look at saddle to hood distance, which takes the bar into account.

12/7/16 9:06 PM

I forgot I knew that. ;)

12/10/16 2:15 PM

Looking a bit more at the options, it's interesting how differentiated bikes are becoming. Trek not only has the H1 (extreme race) and H2 (race/performance/endurance), but also an "endurance" fit which is on the Domane and is shorter and higher than H2. The Bianchi Infinito is similar to H2.

Cool as the Madone RSL is, I think the H1 is probably not for me. Fiddling around on my trainer bike, I can ride fine for awhile with a low bar position, but it's not where I want to be for 14 hours in Mallorca.

Infinito may indeed be a good choice, unfortunately there's no longer a Bianchi dealer nearby, but I'm visiting my brother over the holidays and there's a good dealer near him. And if I'm going to haul the bike across the pond, I think I'd prefer the simplicity of good old mechanical Chorus.

Of course I may still like the RS better, but I'm curious about this newer stuff more than anything.

12/11/16 11:43 AM

...at this late stage is probably inadvisable, anyway. In my experience, going to a less aggressive (higher and/or shorter) position rarely causes any injury, but the opposite is not true. You could easily end up straining your back, hips or hamstrings, with little time to recover before your event. Staying with a position that you know will work, or something more conservative, is the smart approach. You can always experiment later in the season.