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Winter 2016/17 smart trainer thread
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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2318
Location: hillbilly heaven

12/6/16 7:16 PM

Winter 2016/17 smart trainer thread

Thought I would split off from the Zwift/Trainer road thread for a seperate thread for winter training. I rode the last third of some hill in Italy today and it took me 40 minutes. They sent me a new control board for the brake on my Tacx Bushido Smart and I seemed to gain about 10 watts. I'll take anything I can get.

Thinking about downloading a major climb and was wondering what the brain trust suggests. I can only climb about an hour till I'm toast, so I'll need to split it up into 3 or 4 parts. Considering the Mortirolo...

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sanrensho
Joined: 20 Feb 2004
Posts: 771
Location: North Vancouver

12/6/16 10:37 PM

Zoncolan and Stelvio.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 5569
Location: Maine

12/7/16 5:21 AM

Stelvio and Gavia

Channel the glory of Coppi and Hampsten!

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greglepore
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1518
Location: SE Pa, USA

12/7/16 8:02 AM

Stelvio for the views in the top 2/3.

Alpe d'Huez is of course epic, and the worst part is at the bottom.

Galibier if you want suffering, especially the "wrong" way up.

Veloreality has the entire Marmotte available as a group, so you could suffer for days at an hour a crack.

If you want something shortish, there's the Madone, available on veloreality. Lance rode it under and hour :)

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 5569
Location: Maine

12/8/16 6:54 PM

Game on

Finally sucked it up and did the FTP test, which is essential if you're going to train seriously in a structured way, which I need to do if I'm going to have a shot at the Mallorca thing. Rode it pretty well, I think in part because I'm more experienced at it now, and had a decent idea of where I was, so I didn't start out too fast, which I often do. This time I rode it pretty smoothly and comfortably all the way, whereas it is easy to see big numbers at the start and try to hold it and then pay for it later. You always hear to start out slow but it is easier said than done.

Before I started I picked a number I thought was possible but not likely, and said if I hit that, I'd buy a bike. Finished 10 watts above, not sure if that is good or bad....

I know hr doesn't mean much by itself, but I observe that my ticker gets going pretty good. If you take the formula of 220 - age for max hr, my average for the ride was 11 above that and my max was 21 above. I know that is no particular indicator of fitness, just individual variation.

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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2318
Location: hillbilly heaven

12/8/16 7:19 PM

I thought the FTP test was , by definition, uncomfortable. 😀

Can I have your old Sachs bike?

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greglepore
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1518
Location: SE Pa, USA

12/8/16 7:39 PM

My max is more like 212 minus my age, which kills me early to mid in group climbs, until my light weight begins to help

The new tacx direct drive trainer got a great review on dc rainmaker.

Forgot to mention the Telegraph in my earlier post, lots of 6-7 and not much 9 and above, pretty good for sweetspot work, but still hard.

Dan, pace is everything. If you have an idea of your ftp it helps, as you can try not to go nuts early. Outdoor ftp is probably 5-10% higher than indoor.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 15038
Location: Portland, OR

12/8/16 8:03 PM

I guess I am lucky this way. 220-60=160. My max is still just over 180. It is not pretty watching me gulp air staying with 150 lb 30-40 year olds on hills if they are kind enough not to kick it up too too much. Maybe 3 or 4 too too much...

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 3488
Location: Nashua, NH

12/11/16 11:30 AM

The 220-your age formula is bunk

It may be somewhat accurate for sedentary people, but it's typically way off when it comes to active people. I'll be 60 in a few months and my max heart rate is somewhere over 185, which I hit pretty regularly on really hard efforts. As recent as last year, I would occasionally hit 190-192, but I don't think I did this year. Considering that I'm certainly not an exceptional human specimen, I'd say this shows how worthless the old "rule of thumb" is.

Last edited by Brian Nystrom on 12/12/16 6:26 AM; edited 1 time in total

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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2318
Location: hillbilly heaven

12/11/16 2:10 PM

Stelvio data:

Uphill- 26.5 KM
Downhill 0.4 KM

Sounds lovely. I downloaded it and I'll start it today. Steepest part is 10.7 I think, but the average is only 6.4, so I may make better time up it than I fear.

I did part of the Tour of Flanders course the other day and I found that I much prefer shorter,steeper climbs to the long climbs where I can't get off the effort. I always was a sprinter type so I'll keep doing the longer stuff to train my weakness.


Last edited by dfcas on 12/11/16 2:15 PM; edited 1 time in total

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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2318
Location: hillbilly heaven

12/11/16 2:12 PM

Heart rate alone is not really useful. Stroke volume combined with heart rate give the amount of blood moved per minute and is a more usefal number. I fear both of mine are pretty low...

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 5569
Location: Maine

12/11/16 2:29 PM

Col de la Bonette

Rode that yesterday, "the road to nowhere," as the start of the ergvideo/Moninger program. Not too hard, the boys ramped it up at the end. In contrast to Dan's setup, with erg the difficulty is set by the riders not the course. But a specific video always takes the same time!

Today I crosstrained lugging my chainsaw through the woods clearing trails. That's a freakin' workout...

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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2318
Location: hillbilly heaven

12/11/16 2:47 PM

Dan- Mine has an erg mode but to be honest I find it too painful. I'm not doing a real program-just riding the bike. I may start a program later on, but I'll need a lot more motivation than I have now.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 5569
Location: Maine

12/11/16 4:07 PM

Just riding is fine

I'm just doing a program as I have to go get my fat butt in shape for a hard ride in April.

I have seen that the programs really work if you stick with them.

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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2318
Location: hillbilly heaven

12/11/16 4:14 PM

Well, that was a bust. After 35 minutes my blood sugar went low so I had to get off. Nothing steep yet and I was making pretty good time. I'll resume next time and hopefully get farther.

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Rickk
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 445
Location: Montreal

12/11/16 8:48 PM

La Bonette - the real deal

We rode that two Septembers ago, while in the area of Nice, France - as one of our cycling buddies over here married a "Nicoise" and now knows the area very well.
Descending on the generally open, viewable switchbacks was also pretty fun.
Several days before La Bonette, we did several other climbs in the (pre) Alpes Maritimes including La Madone - which imho was much easier than La Bonette. Obviously I didn't time trial it up - as Lance used to during early season training.
Beautiful weather and in general - amazingly polite/cycle-friendly car drivers especially on the mountain passes.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 5569
Location: Maine

12/15/16 7:09 PM

FRC Fun

Greg posted something awhile back about FRC (functional reserve capacity) intervals. Did my first FRC workout of the year tonite, a baby version, 2 sets of 6 40 second bursts @130% FTP, with 20 second recovery. They went fine, in fact the last 2 intervals were the most comfortable. Problem was, after that Scotty scheduled 40 minutes tempo@90%. No way, legs screaming, had to ratchet it down to finish. But I was still happy with the ride. Guess that's why I'm not a racer boy. Can't knock off those high power intervals and recover quickly.

Workout before that was "climbing intervals" in this case one 50 minute interval @80%. Even that wasn't easy, but doable.

And on with the fun!

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greglepore
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1518
Location: SE Pa, USA

12/16/16 8:00 AM

The six at 130 hurt, the 4x 150% in the second phase suck ... then the tempo.

Yeah, for the first month I have to dial back the tempo.

Tried the 4 man tt last week, massive fail at 100%.

But the good news is that I managed to get through a set of 5x5's at 120% which has always been a problem indoors. I have no issue with them outside, just find a longish hill and go, but indoors I lack the mental fortitude.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 15038
Location: Portland, OR

12/16/16 10:13 AM

I do fine with doing tempo after interval sets. As long as I have the recovery time. A day is usally is good.:-)

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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2318
Location: hillbilly heaven

12/26/16 5:04 PM

So I finished the Stelvio. 6,000 vertical feet is a long climb. About 3k from the top in a switchback there was a photo van- "foto Stelvio" that I wish I could have hired to photograph me.

At the top there were hundreds of motorcycles, so it an extremely popular ride for them.

There were a lot of cyclists on the way up, but more motos passed me. Maybe Alpe d,Huez is next.

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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2318
Location: hillbilly heaven

1/6/17 10:20 AM

I'm working on the Mortirolo now. Damn. I think after this I'll do something with less extended climbing.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 5569
Location: Maine

1/6/17 10:55 AM

L'Alpe tonite

But it's an easy version, just the first hour ratcheted way back.

Just setting me up for the beloved FTP test which comes next.

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rickhardy
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 1443
Location: Needham outside of Boston - the hub of the universe

1/8/17 9:49 AM

Yup

I am week behind you on the schedule FTP in store next weekend

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 5569
Location: Maine

1/8/17 2:55 PM

Not today

Was going to do either the test or a long ride like the Stelvio today but the snowshoeing turned out to be better than I expected - blowdown back in the woods not as bad as I'd thought, and the crusty snow was actually fun to walk on (the metal teeth on my MSRs got a good workout). Couple hours of that and my legs are sufficiently toastified.

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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2318
Location: hillbilly heaven

1/15/17 4:10 PM

Finished the Mortirolo today. Damn that was hard and I don't think I'll do that again. Looking forward to some rolling terrain for a while then I may tackle Alpe D'Huez.

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