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Specialized Roubaix 2017
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Marc N.
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 457
Location: Israel

12/2/16 12:04 AM

Specialized Roubaix 2017

I`m looking at buying a new bike (my first since 2001), and have my eye on a 2017 Roubaix. Unlike past models that had the Zertz inserts, the new models have what they call Future Shock (a micro suspension above they head tube) with 20mm of float. Initial reviews are very favorable, but was curious what you folks thought.
The bike also only come with disc brakes, which I have no experience with at all. The model I`m looking at is with mechanical Ultegra, and would appreciate thoughts if the Di2 is a significant upgrade. Not sure if another purchase will be in my future, and I`m having a hard time deciding if it is worth the extra cash. Thanks.

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Marc N.
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 457
Location: Israel

12/2/16 3:31 AM

Cont.

Forgot to add that I am also considering the Trek Domane SL6 or SL7, but for the time being am leaning towards the Specialized.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6884
Location: Maine

12/2/16 5:45 AM

Can only offer general advice

"Life is short, buy the damn bike."

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Campyman
Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Posts: 52
Location: Wausau, WI

12/2/16 6:55 AM

New bike

Not sure of your budget so a bit hard to point you in a specific direction.
Have you checked out the Domane SLR? I know it is a step up in price from the SL. I would lean in the Trek direction over the Specialized. IMHO the level of engineering is better with a Trek then almost any other bike brand.
As to the Groupo, get the Di2, way better then Mechanical. My wife has a Di2 Ultegra equipped Trek Silque SSL and loves the way it shifts. Several of my friends also have Di2 Ultegra all of then swear by it.
My current ride is a Domane 6, the one before they released the Domane with the front ISO-Speed. I've ridden the SL and the SLR. The SLR was the better ride with the SL coming in very close.
All things being equal the most important detail when getting a new ride is which frame geometry fits you and your ride style and needs.

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greglepore
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1724
Location: SE Pa, USA

12/2/16 8:31 AM

Agree with Campyman, especially if this is to be a long time purchase. I think the new Roubaix is interesting but unproven. The Domane is groundbreaking as well, but a little more mainstream.

Di2 is worth the money, and Shimano recently impressed me by releasing reverse compatible (11 speed to 10) derailleurs to solve the problem of the 10 spd stuff being out of production. Actually better than Campy in that regard today.

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henoch
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 1690

12/2/16 9:31 AM

Trek Deals

On the topic of the Treks, Trek Travel is selling their rental fleet, I haven't looked through it but perhaps you can find something nice at a good price
https://shop.trektravel.com/collections/all

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Marc N.
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 457
Location: Israel

12/2/16 10:08 AM

Thanks !

Campyman - While as a rule I fully adhere to Dan`s philosophy, this is really stretching my budget. I can get the 7SL with the Di2 or the 6SLR without and even that is pushing it. The 7SLR is just too much. Knowing myself, in the end I will justify that as well, but for the time being, no. If that is my choice, and I decide on the Trek, then I prefer the 7SL with the Di2.
Greg - Granted the new Roubaix is unproven, but it seems like a reasonable gamble. Interestingly enough, a service tech here who has a earlier version and rode the new one said the ride was significantly better but he voiced the same concern as you.
Dan - Thanks for the push.
Henoch - I just saw your post. I live in Israel which makes anything like that a no go. To a certain extent, it also limits me as to what bikes are available and their price. So it goes.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6884
Location: Maine

12/2/16 10:56 AM

Justification

>>Knowing myself, in the end I will justify that as well<<

I am currently pondering a bike and the only justification is "I think it's cool."

But that may be enough.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5096
Location: Nashua, NH

12/2/16 2:37 PM

Having ridden Di2 equipped SL6s...

...for a week on two separate Trek Travel trips in France and Italy, I have somewhat different impressions of them.

I really didn't think that Di2 was a major improvement over mechanical shifting and it has its own set of issues with wires disconnecting, finicky calibration, etc. Yes, it's nice, but it just didn't make a big impression on me. I couldn't justify the increased cost and weight penalty for a marginal gain in shifting ease. I'd much rather put the cost difference toward a better frame or better wheels. I'm not "anti electronic shifting" and I'd consider something like SRAM eTap, as it offers more benefits than Di2 (less weight, no wires, readily repairable).

As for the Domane, my impressions were different on the two trips, probably due to the policies of the guides. In France, they wouldn't let me run reasonable tire pressures and insisted on inflating them to 100+ PSI. That resulted in a very unbalanced feel, with the rear feeling very smooth due to the Isospeed setup and the front being extremely harsh. In Italy, they allowed me to run 80 front/ 90 rear, which is still higher than I normally use, but it was a great improvement. The bike felt much more balanced and was noticeably more comfortable in the front end.

The Domane is a nice-handling bike, regardless of the setup you choose. I found it very easy to get used to and confidence inspiring on high-speed descents. It's certainly a good choice, though I admit to being intrigued by the 2017 Roubaix. I'm waiting for them to put the Future Shock on a gravel bike...

If you're interested in any of Trek Travel's used bikes, I can vouch that they're well cared for, though they are ridden in all kinds of conditions and will have several thousand miles on them.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

12/2/16 4:33 PM

Seems like the 2017 is different enough as to qualm the feelings I have for the 2014 Disc Roubaix. Which lasted less than 6 months before I sold it off, threads here about my general satisfaction.

Weight, and carbon buildup for handling hub brake forces made for a pretty shitty ride IMO. And 28s being tight no reprieve via 30-32 tires was possible.

If I was to do it again it would be the Domane SLR I'd for sure throw a leg over. Or even a Bianchi Infinito before another Spesh.

In the end the Strong custom is far more versatile, especially tire size and use that comes with bigger tires.

Still amazed that the Steel Disc Strong with steel fork and 10 Speed XT Triple [with barcons] is only 1/2 lb heavier than the disc Roubiax with 10 speed Dura Ace STI groupo [same wheels/tires].

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

12/2/16 4:41 PM

I can speak for the Di2 Ultegra as well. Although I only just got it rolling on my Scott Addict before the season went wet here. But easy to see in 5-6 rides how easy it is to like. The front shifting particularly is much improved over cables.

The program-ability for shift speed and multi gear changes both up and down is also super nice added functionality. Not to mention auto trimming front DR.

And how did 'Campymans' wife wind up with Shimano Di2 one might wonder. ;)


EDIT: Went to the Spesh site and looked at the Expert Di2. Mostly different animal than the 2014 I had. Wonder if they got it right this time?

Noticed following over my 2014: shorter WB, lower stack, longer reach, thru axles, sudo susp front, zertz out. Seems like Spesh kept limitations on the tire size so you will need to by the Divege too if you want ride up to 35mm. ;)

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6884
Location: Maine

12/2/16 5:57 PM

Di2 advantages?

I haven't used any e-shifting, but what specifically are the advantages that make it worth the extra $? I use Chorus mechanical on several bikes and have no complaints and know of nothing that needs to be improved. I click and it shifts, front and rear. No problem with trimming, multiple shifts or anything else. I have no idea what "programmability" is or why I would need it.

What significant advantages would I get from Di2?

If I get another bike I may get it as part of a package, but I feel no need for it.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

12/2/16 6:12 PM

"advantages would I get from Di2?"

My still in honeymoon period opinion.

As above regarding shifting points I made.

I look at my 7800 STIs on other bike and how clean the cabling/bars are on the Di2. But Campy and now 11 speed Shimano have all under bar tape routing.

But 2 brake cables and a 2.6mm wire VS 4 cable w/housings. Less steering damping from all the cable/housings, steering actually feels lighter as a surprise to me. Less of me not quite pushing shifter enough and missing a shift when tired perhaps. I miss downshifts instead from not pushing the button hard enough. Will get used to this I assume.

The GS RD with 32 tooth cassette feels exactly the same as the 25 tooth cassette, I notice shifting difference in snap on cabled road GS RD even with 23-5 tooth cassette.


Last edited by Sparky on 12/2/16 6:43 PM; edited 1 time in total

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6884
Location: Maine

12/2/16 6:18 PM

Well

You haven't mentioned anything I would consider a significant advantage over what I have, but I have an open mind. Steering damping? Really?

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

12/2/16 6:57 PM

"Steering damping? Really?"

The Scott steering since Di2 went on feels lighter, same wheels and tires. Just removed the 10s cassette spacer popped on the 11s cassette, being it went 10 to 11s.

Can't think what else changed it.. Different, not advantage per say, and you asked for advantage.
I strayed as usual. ;)

The feel of it over all is alluring. And I have DA 10s on my fav 3, so arguably used to nice light quick feel.

A plus for me as well, not applicable for you already with 11s is the addition of the closer ratio cogs etc.

You should rent or test ride one one day and see if it sways you one way or the other.

And perhaps the dollar/performance/NewToy ration is part of my delight. Being I am on fixed budget and cobbled it together for under 500.00 and not 1300.00 and pay to have it installed setup etc.

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Steve B.
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Posts: 769
Location: Long Island, NY

12/3/16 9:37 AM

Is there ever a "significant" advantage when moving up to the latest and
greatest, when you already have very good ?.

I researched Ultegra Di2 while building a Chinese Carbon this past summer so my current understanding of the advantages are;

1) Reliability, being that cables and systems are not or less prone to crud and falling out of adjustment. Thus shifting stays near perfect over a longer period. 2) Very snappy and precise shifting, better then DA. 3) Reduced maintanence costs, if you are replacing shift cables every season, and now needing to replace bar tape due to cables laid under the tape. So $60 year. Di2 might need a battery replaced every 3-5 years, but they run $130 or so. 4) Front shifter self adjusts as the rear moves across the cluster. 5) I saw a post by an older rider with arthritis having trouble doing up shifts on mechanical, so this was just the ticket. 6) Looks great on a frame designed for internal routing and battery placement.

Potential issues ?, 1) Battery failure is the biggy, but there's a limp home mode, 2) Cable issues; didn't read much about this as a problem and the newer Shimano system seems very reliable in this regard. 3) Part failures are VERY expensive. 4) Some testers/users report tactile feedback issues with Shimano while wearing long fingered insulated gloves - I.E. not having a sense of having pushed the button.

It's about $850 or so to buy the basic kit, shifters, derailers, battery and cables/junctions, assuming you have 11 spd. currently.

I couldn't just justify that amount for a modest improvement in shifting.

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greglepore
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1724
Location: SE Pa, USA

12/3/16 10:49 AM

Steve, excellent analysis. I'd add as a plus that front shifting is almost perfect, I think I've seen one dropped chain in 3 years or so. Another plus, on aero bikes or those with difficult internal routing is the lack of need to replace cables. As a minus, I had a battery do a complete failure while out, and was left with the gear I was in (52-11).

I agree that if you already have a group, the upgrade is difficult to justify. On a new build, not so much.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6884
Location: Maine

12/3/16 10:58 AM

Well again...

I have no problems with reliability. I may adjust cable tension once or twice a year, for a total of about a minute.

I almost never replace cables, or even touch them. I don't do a ton of miles, and spread them over several bikes, but cable maintenance is no issue to me. I did replace one when it frayed and cut my hand. Never replace bar tape. Saved cost for me is more like $.60.

My shifting feels plenty snappy to me.

I agree it looks slick, observed it on the Madone Race Shop Limited Jens Voigt was riding. Thinking of possibly getting one of those, if so I'll go full boat with the Di2. But that's about the only way.

BTW, my racer friends tell me Campy is irrelevant in the e-shifting market, everyone gets Shimano or SRAM. True? Campyman?

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

12/3/16 11:17 AM

''Madone Race Shop Limited Jens Voigt"

Or start with this [if you can handle low low stack] ;)

On sale too!

Trek Domane Race Shop Limited Koppenberg Edition Frameset


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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5096
Location: Nashua, NH

12/3/16 11:24 AM

Dan, I agree with you

Like you, I don't have issues with mechanical shifting. I find it somewhat amusing that people are all excited about Di2 front shifting, as I don't find front shifting to be a problem on any of my bikes.

The Record 10 rear shifter on my primary road bike is getting slightly sloppy after 8 years of use and it's due for a rebuild. I have the G springs I need, so it's just a matter of doing it some snowy day this winter. If I was using Shimano, my only recourse would be to throw it away and buy a new one, since you can't get parts for their shifters. To me, that's a huge reason not to buy their stuff.

Campy is a pretty marginal player in the OEM market; it doesn't matter whether you're talking about mechanical or electronic. My understanding is that few companies spec'd it in the past due to issues with inconsistent delivery, but that may be resolved now. They're making a play for the more mainstream market with the new Potenza group, but the higher end parts are almost exclusively used on custom builds, at least in the US. It's too bad, as most cyclists have no idea what they're missing.

If I was going to make one suggestion for improving Campy EPS, it would be to get rid of the buttons and go back to the shift lever and "mouse ear", with the same clicks and feel, but with an electronic switch inside. I do a lot of multiple gear shifts and it's faster if you can just push the lever or mouse ear and shift 2, 3 or more gears in one stroke, rather than pushing a button multiple times or holding it and waiting for multiple shifts to occur (assuming you have it programmed to do so). It would also make the transition from mechanical to electronic shifting seamless, since there would be nothing to learn or adapt to.


Last edited by Brian Nystrom on 12/3/16 11:29 AM; edited 2 times in total

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

12/3/16 11:28 AM

Wonder if folks on long excursions bring a spare charged battery. External batt is about the weight of a ultra light tube.

"older rider with arthritis having trouble doing up shifts"

I had a tendonitis on my right arm/elbow going on for a good while early 2016. Gah, would not subside.

My wife's bike had Micro shift Nashbar STI and instead of brake lever swing, they have a separate paddle for pulling cable. I got a set for 81.00 on sale and replaced DA STI, they helped stop continually irritating the condition. They are on the Madone now and no plan to take them off either. More ERGO than Shimano too. For my big hands anyway...

I wish I had the Di2 rolling then, but only got it rolling after 6-7 months of that shit. Dropping stuff, not being able to open jars etc.

But not pushing the level with an fore-arm swing sure made a difference.


Last edited by Sparky on 12/3/16 11:50 AM; edited 2 times in total

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

12/3/16 11:38 AM

" I find it somewhat amusing that people are all excited about Di2 front shifting, as I don't find front shifting to be a problem on any of my bikes. "

I did not find front shifting to be a problem at all on my bikes either. But I can tell you the front shifting caught me quite by surprise. Especially since I like a 39/53 performance over compacts.
Unfortunately I am to fat and slow and my ski knee does not approve of the 39 for climbing.

The Di2 shifts up front like I could not have imagined. Not to mention 11 speed Shimano cranks improvement over 10s added in to the equation. A few 'X factors faster on the front shifts is realized.

Amused, eh? ;) LOL I guess I am amused that you are amused.


Last edited by Sparky on 12/3/16 11:55 AM; edited 1 time in total

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

12/3/16 11:45 AM

"holding it and waiting for multiple shifts to occur"

Is the speed of the held button/multi shift programmable on the EPS?

When I brought the Di2 to get buttons reversed I was asked if I wanted the speed of multi shift faster. So I guess the Di2 can do that. I said no, but now wish I had it sped up a bit faster now I got more used to the bike with the electronic shifting.

Any reports or experience [or friends] with the SRAM wireless anyone??

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5096
Location: Nashua, NH

12/3/16 11:55 AM

Microshift works just like Campy

The design is so close that I wonder how they get away with it, unless they licensed it from Campy. The differences appear to be that on Campy Chorus and up, the mouse ear will shift up to 9 cogs in one stroke (on 10 speed shifters) vs. 3 for Microshift, but the lever shifts only 3 cogs, vs. 4 for Microshift. I find that I use that functionality a lot when doing simultaneous front/rear shifts and the increased range of the mouse ear is needed, especially with compact (50/34) and other wide-range chainring setups.

My understanding is that the EPS multi-shift speed is programmable. However, I don't think you can program it to do the automatic combined front/rear shifting that some Shimano systems allow. That started on their MTB systems and I think it has migrated to the road now. SRAM is also programmable, but I don't know to what degree.


Last edited by Brian Nystrom on 12/3/16 11:59 AM; edited 1 time in total

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Marc N.
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 457
Location: Israel

12/3/16 11:56 AM

Again, thanks !

Thank you all for the interesting and helpful feedback. A hell of a lot food for thought.
Interesting to me that no one has commented about the disc brakes. In some models like the Specialized it is standard, while others like the Trek it depends on the model.
In the meantime I am checking out some other options, but it will still probably come down to those two.

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