9/22/15 10:14 AM

VW came up with an ingenious way to cheat on emissions tests. The cars software would sense when a tester was connected and switch to the clean program and when the test was done switch back to the "dirty" programing. The 'dirty" program would cause the emission of up to 40 times the pollution allowed. As many as 11 million cars are involved worldwide.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/19/business/volkswagen-is-ordered-to-recall-nearly-500000-vehicles-over-emissions-software.html

9/22/15 11:01 AM

Nice deep pocket to pay the fine. Which should include 24 months of non import.

Dave Stoller: Everybody cheats, I just didn't know.

9/22/15 1:38 PM

I am in the market for a car, and that was one of the ones on my short list.... hmm might have to delete it.

9/22/15 3:04 PM

We have one, a2009 Jetta tdi. Have loved it, up til now. Got it because of mileage, fast pickup with gobs of torque, low emissions (touted as cleaner than a Prius when we got it). Kind of like bike parts - light, strong, cheap, pick two. Except that here when the recall is implemented, we will be left with only one. We will no longer get 40+ mpg at 70 mph, and no more zoom off the line. And loss of resale value, of course. Class actions have been filed already ( not by me). Will probably take a year or so to see what compensation will be offered us.

The irony is that we got it thru the cash for clunkers program, designed to get polluting gas guzzlers off the road.

9/22/15 3:59 PM

Ironically just as this broke a couple days ago I saw a TV commercial from the local dealer touting the great Jetta tdi. Bet they pulled that fast. Not a good time to be a VW/Audi dealer.

I have an A4 (gas, not affected by this) which I have liked a lot, but I am through with this morally bankrupt company. It would not make practical or economic sense to trade it in now, but I may think about it anyway. Though I can't think of another car I really want. :)

Kind of like doping, you wonder if everyone else is doing it too. Though I won't assume so unless there is evidence.

Seems to me hard consideration of criminal charges is warranted.

9/22/15 5:27 PM

My question is at what point is this a massive case of consumer fraud that will require full price buy-backs, just like returning a POS TV to Best Buys.

It's going to be interesting to see what the DoJ does with this.

As note, it's now 11 million vehicles word wide.

Personally, I hate to see VW go under because of this. They've set aside 7 billion supposedly to handle it, but I think that's going to be way too little.

9/22/15 6:09 PM

I agree totally that this is disgusting..

If I saw this on the news the day after we picked up a TDi I would have be livid. Good thing we got a Honda.... for now. ;O

9/22/15 7:06 PM

GM did it about 15 years ago where some of their cars would not pass AZ emissions test with the A/C on. Seems the test was designed such that all cars are tested with the A/C off and GM found the loophole, allowing better MPG and HP when the A/C was running. It kept the average MPG higher for the cars and fudged the tests. They got off really easy IIRC.

VW got caught fudging a test, just like GM.

Last edited by ErikS on 9/23/15 4:23 AM; edited 1 time in total

9/22/15 8:31 PM

PC graphics cards used to lie too. Also Samsung cellphones.
Detect when a benchmark is being run, then run hand-optimized code for that benchmark resulting in inflated scores.

9/23/15 3:58 PM

In Europe almost all makers tweak their cars do do well in the test, which don't reflect real world driving conditions.
This is stimulated by different tax-regimes, resulting in different models and firmware for different countries.
Stupid tests result in stupid solutions to succeed in the test.

9/23/15 11:43 PM

As I understand it, though, this is something different from tweaking for the test. Everyone likely does that, and it's expected, and the test at least tries to duplicate real driving conditions. But what VW did was actually to detect when testing was done, and run a different program when it was over. That's a different dimension of cheating, I think, like the difference in taxation between avoiding and evading.

9/24/15 7:44 AM

Talk about bad timing. I saw in our paper that the VW Group had just passed Toyota as the world's largest car company and now this gets discovered.

The problem isn't limited to the US where about 500,000 cars are affected but world-wide and about 11,000,000 cars. This is going to be a HUGE problem for VW which has always been a minor player in the US market and this isn't going to make that any better.

9/24/15 11:04 AM

BMW now under the hot seat after X3 tests for elevenfold NOx emissions.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/sep/24/bmw-shares-emissions-volkswagen

Unsurprisingly, it's being reported that UK, France and Germany lobbied in favor of outdated (loophole) emissions tests.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/sep/24/uk-france-and-germany-lobbied-for-flawed-car-emissions-tests-documents-reveal

Even more so than a shift in VW's image, we are looking at a sea change in emissions testing in Europe if not worldwide.

9/24/15 11:16 AM

If the changes to really meet emission level requirements have a negative effect on mileage and power, it's going to make meeting the upcoming CAFE requirements even tougher and going to make automotive diesels far less attractive.

9/24/15 2:48 PM

I never understood it though. All this talk about VW being such a great car maker but I had one. It was a POS. Interior fell apart, suspension fell apart, rear brake systems froze up and wore out just one shoe per side.

I gave it to my daughter who used it to haul farm hay and feed, even goats after she moved to a small farm.

That was because it was a POS car that fell apart. I will never get another VW.

9/24/15 3:15 PM

Statistically poor reliability that never improves. I suspect a corporate culture that has not fundamentally embraced the tenets of continuous improvement. How that connects to a lack of governance that would permit this kind of cheater device, is hard to say.

9/24/15 4:31 PM

I was at a Board of Directors meeting today with a bunch of lawyers, and one guy left early because his firm was filing a class action against VW today. This is one of Portland's major corporate firms, not a Plaintiff's firm. He said he thought VW was going to have to buy the cars back, basically. Thinking about litigation, I don't see how they have any defense at all to punitive damages, which could absolutely kill them (no expert here, but I think punitives are capped in some jurisdictions and others not so much).

And in addition to getting killed on damages, I don't see how the company and probably lots of officers/employees are not criminally liable. They have basically admitted the elements of punitive damages and criminal liability. This wil very interesting. I have not sympathy at all for VW, eff 'em. The only thing in their favor is the livelihood of all the innocent workers.

9/24/15 5:22 PM

The new Beetle we had the interior was sub-standard even by GM standards IMO.

It was a lease, so it went back before it failed otherwise. We like the car, but come on, painted interior door panel and even handles? Really?

9/25/15 6:32 AM

quote:

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We like the car, but come on, painted interior door panel and even handles? Really?

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9/25/15 2:04 PM

Can they actually survive this I am wondering...

9/25/15 2:47 PM

Over the years I've owned: a Beetle, a Ghia, a bus, a Rabbit, a Golf, and a GTI. All gave good service relative to their price point. A close friend has a recent Jetta and has had no problems.

Lest I seem like an apologist for VW, I hope someone pays dearly. I'm less interested in huge fines that could cripple the corporation and result in innocent workers being laid off, and more interested in seeing some management heads roll. Not just fired, but major jail time.

9/25/15 3:58 PM

My A4 is a great car, and has been reliable. I don't know what "competition" it is much less reliable than, BMW? Mercedes?

This has nothing to do with quality, it is about cheating and then lying about it.

I don't know about the fine, but I think they will pay a ton to settle the lawsuits. I don't think they want to be in front of a jury with the power to award punitive damages.

9/25/15 10:02 PM

Is it really that big a problem for VW? What percentage of their cars are diesel?

9/26/15 7:07 AM

I would bet a whopping 50%. VW sells a ton of black smokers in other markets.

9/26/15 8:02 AM

Diesel sales in the US are a very small part of the car market but in Europe they are huge, something like 60%. In fact, the tax structure in Europe makes Diesel fuel cheaper than petrol while here it's more expensive.