8/29/15 10:37 AM

For acceptance in today's pro peloton of epic cheaters, they need to stress the security aspect. It's not to convince the average amateur that they won't be hacked, it's to reassure the pros.

8/30/15 9:22 AM

your point is?

8/30/15 6:08 PM

quote:

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your point is?

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8/31/15 5:11 AM

So the unforeseeable availability of firmware updates for legacy equipment would not factor into your decision to purchase wireless shifting?

Geez, I feel like I'm grinding a pretty fine powder here, sorry guys.

8/31/15 5:26 AM

Of course, there will probably be some bug fixes and enhancements initially, but once the product is mature, why would it need updates? Remember, we're talking about electronic derailleurs, not Windows or Mac OS. The software has to do two things, allow communication between the various components and shift them as designed. Those are not Herculean tasks.

8/31/15 6:26 AM

quote:

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So the unforeseeable availability of firmware updates for legacy equipment would not factor into your decision to purchase wireless shifting?

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8/31/15 9:22 AM

quote:

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So the unforeseeable availability of firmware updates for legacy equipment would not factor into your decision to purchase wireless shifting?

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9/2/15 9:28 PM

"...By that thinking we'd still be riding 5-speed freewheels."

Not that there's anything wrong with that...

9/4/15 8:00 AM

Updates could make an 11spd into a 12 but nobody will do that. It won't sell new shifters.

Hackers will do the upgrading for those who want it. I don't foresee manufacturers making anything that is able to connect and be flashed by a standard computer set up. It would not be smart business.

9/4/15 7:08 PM

dddd, I saw that you posted that photo before, but looking at it again, I think it looks a lot like my first road bike, except that my bike was green. Very cool.

My bike had the same or similar plastic Simplex derailleurs, cottered crank, dropouts, maybe the same seatstay and chainstay shape, derailleur hanger, maybe the same rainbow stripes (going from memory). Are those Weinmann rims? Mine had wingnuts instead of quick releases. I think it had a bicycle license from 1971. It was in my garage when I was growing up, and I was told it was one of my uncle's. I fixed it up in about 1982 when I was in junior high and discovered I was big enough to ride it. THe plastic in the front derailleur was already cracking by then, so I eventually took it off and shifted in the front manually with my fingers. I took my first 20-30 mile rides on it in Jr. high, and it became my commute bike until I wrecked it as a senior in HS in 1987. The drivetrain was so worn by that point that the chain skipped on me as I stood up to accelerate, and down I went, bending the fork and frame. Before that, the handlebar snapped on me at the stem (without causing an accident). Good times. It was a nice riding bike with the 1-1/8 or 1-1/4" tires and longish chainstays. I was never sure what the make of the bike was.

9/5/15 1:40 AM

Wow, you remember all that!

There were a lot of European brands that followed very similar recipes on their lower-cost bikes. Mine did come with wing nuts on front and rear wheels.

Mine also had Rigida steel rims, which I upgraded to aluminum rims on Phil 5s hubs.

Sounds like you got a lot of use out of yours. I also broke a handlebar on a different cyclocross bike, but like you I didn't crash.

BTW, the bike I pictured is a Steyr brand bike. Their next-better brand from the same factory in Austria was called Puch.

9/5/15 9:45 PM

Yeah, I still remember everything because I took the bike apart as far as I could with the non-bike tools that we had at home. I had zero budget for repair parts as a kid playing with stuff in the garage, but at the time I was reading all the bike books on the shelf at the local library (and Bicycling magazine from there as well). The back rim was steel with a stamped pattern on the brake track - maybe Rigida. I polished the rust off of the back rim and spokes and remember being amazed to make something rusting look shiny. The front wheel must have been a replacement because it had an aluminum rim and double swaged stainless steel spokes on a high flange hub (though still with wingnuts). The fork crown was covered with a chromed metal sleeve to look like a chromed fork crown but the lower fork was really chromed. It had center pull brakes, auxiliary brake levers that I wanted to remove but never did, black plastic/chrome shifters on the top tube. Actually I take back the part about the snapped off bars at the stem. That was a different bike. On this bike the stem cracked into two below the headset lock nut, held together by the binder bolt. I just pushed the stem further down into the steerer and rode on. It also had toe clips and straps on the pedals, so that's where I learned to use them. I remember the pedals cutting grooves into my sneakers and being it being a pain in the feet after a while.

It WAS a Steyr. I just did a Bing image search for "Steyr bike" and the first photo shows a green bike that says Clubman on the downtube, which is what I had. Pretty sharp looking for a lower end bike. I do remember the Puch ads in Bicycling magazine. Mine dind't have fenders and did have drop bars.

9/8/15 4:27 AM

I bought a Clubman that color in about 1984, $75 and felt good about it. Two days later one of my roommates came home with a white one he found for $50, more power to him.

The pinstripes sold me on it. Plus it was solid, good geometry (I bought it because the Saronni bought to replace my broken Viner was stolen, grrr,) not light but no worse than a $175 Fuji Dynamic 10 I'd bought in maybe '77. Definitely hand striped by a good hand, looked great and not a decal.

9/8/15 4:04 PM

The name might be forgettable after all of these years, but those were impressive bikes for the sub-$100 price that they sold for new.

I bought this one on Saturday, it's a 1967 Steyr, but is badged for Sears Roebuck, and labeled as "10 speed racer" on the top tube.

I believe it came after the early-60's Steyr/Sears road bikes labeled "Ted Williams", but before the '70's Steyr/Sears road bikes labeled "Free Spirit".

Fortunately(!) it has steeper frame angles than my taller Steyr Clubman, for whatever reason, which made it a better fit for me (I was sure it would be to small).

I actually rode out to a 38-mile club ride with it yesterday, and didn't get dropped until the last and longest climb of the ride. I had only needed to replace the rear inner tube (original tube was labeled "Semperit Austria") and do a two-hour "oil-can tune-up" on it the night before. The chainrings needed straightening, but at least the tires were ok and the axle wingnuts gripped the frame reassuringly after the oiling-up.

So I remain a fan of these bikes, especially since their larger frames are slacker-angled, so fit "small", but their medium frames measure two-degrees steeper, so fit "big". Handling seems neutral at all times.
The original(?) saddle did result in some stinging sensation, but only during my post-ride shower. Somehow it went un-noticed during the ride, and I won't be needing medical attention at least.

The Clubman I've been riding now for 2-1/2 years is shown at the bottom, after some upgrading (especially the 700c wheels, bar, stem and saddle/post). It has the specific chromed-tin cover over the fork crown that Andrew had mentioned.

9/9/15 4:43 AM

Wow, this started as a discussion about the very latest hydraulic shifting and brake systems and morphed into a discussion of steel bikes from the 60's complete with downtube friction shifting and center pull calipers with exposed brake cables.

9/9/15 11:49 AM

At least it stayed cycling related. ;)

9/9/15 11:58 AM

"...steel bikes from the 60's complete with downtube friction shifting and center pull calipers with exposed brake cables."

Exposed brake cables, ...the horror!

For comparison purposes? Then versus now, lowest-end versus highest-end...

Two steps back equals one step forward?

I posit that the fitment of the 6" piece of modern shifter cable housing made far more improvement to these bike's shifting performance than any digital or hydraulic shifting transmission improved on contemporary cabling. Just a thought.

It's not about the bike, ...NOT.

9/9/15 12:24 PM

Rt. lever and hydro caliper:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/301398921768?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


L. lever and hydro caliper:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/301398921974?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

9/9/15 6:34 PM

Can you get the brakes to go with the levers? Are they any advantage? The hydro rim brakes that is.

9/9/15 8:48 PM

I posted those ebay listings because the hydro calipers come with the levers, at that price, which is very, very low.

That they are only 10sp distinguishes them from the near-identical Rival "22" parts, but the weight is the same.

Considering what the price of entry tends to be for any sort of hydro-braked 11-speed road bike, these levers/brakes might make for a good, affordable upgrade project, so I thought I'd post them. SRAM's 10 and 11 speed rear derailers use the exact same "Exact Actuation" actuation ratio, and brand-new Rival-22 rear derailers can be had for only $40 shipped (I just bought a new Force-22 mid-cage derailer for just $72 shipped).

As for advantages, hydro brakes have extremely low friction and low flex between lever and caliper, so the braking response is much better than with cables. That means quicker, more accurately-modulated braking application, and with no deterioration from friction increases as the cabling ages.

9/10/15 4:21 AM

They really don't offer the perceived advantage that the disk does (better braking in the wet). IMO no real advantage. Today's cable actuated cable brakes are damn smooth, even my Rival brakes are fantastic. Just to have them a bit smoother is not worth it IMO.

Disks are different enough to have distinct performance differences. Rim hydro brakes are just a Rube Goldberg.

9/10/15 10:34 AM

I have to disagree a bit. Other than pad replacement, hydraulic rim brakes should be essentially zero-maintenance items. They should also operate consistently regardless of temperature or the presence of dirt/mud/snow/ice, etc. that can cause issues with cables ( stopping performance will obviously still be affected by environmental conditions). For people who want something more weatherproof than cable brakes, but that can be installed on an existing frame, they make sense. If someone were to develop a hydraulic replacement for cantilever brakes (like the old Magura MTB brakes), it could be a significant improvement for 'cross and touring bikes.

9/10/15 11:29 AM

That's what I was thinking when I suggested the advantages of hydro rim brakes.

Anyone who tried the old Magura hydro rim brakes could tell you how superior was the actuation/response, a real performance advantage that definitlely helped the rider to better deal with the inevitable variations in rim friction conditions. Trials riders especially exploited their improved response.

It's true that cable brakes have seen improvements, but you can sure still feel the difference at the lever between front and rear cable-op brakes, even when the cabling is all new.

I would expect the road hydro rim brakes to improve on issues like using carbon rims and/or riding in wet conditons, but surprisingly there just don't seem to be any reviews out there yet for consumers to judge these new hydro rim brakes.

9/11/15 5:35 AM

...is probably because there aren't many (or any?) new bikes that are spec'd with hydraulic caliper brakes. Everyone seems to be either sticking with cables to keep the cost down or going with discs.

9/11/15 9:42 AM

Watch the SRAM eBay hydr brake bits. Double check for recall parts, as there was a bout of recalls on SRAM brake stuff a while back.