6/11/15 6:59 PM

Swapped out the tubes for Latex with 2 oz sealant ea. in one bike so far.

Tubeless SL23 Pacenti rims setup w/tubes. I had a normal butyl rear and a Air-R light in the front. Pro4 Service Course 23C Michelin rear and a stupid light Hutch Atom Comp front.

I thought I would notice a feel in the front 176gr paper tire and maybe not the rear. But I sure can notice the feel of them both and like it.

I got some 18/23 and 25/28 tubes. Next the 320 TPI Vittoria 25C Paves are getting the treatment.

They have removable cores and even come with a clear sleeve over the smooth brass valve to make the sealant injection a breeze too. Got them @ artscycles for 11.00 ea shipped free...

I still have some big Specialized Airlock bottles from when I worked at the LBS.

I decided to try this after seeing this @ slowtwitch.com:

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/Things_that_Roll/Tires/Sealant_Test_-_Part_2_4155.html

I am having trouble pulling the trigger on tubeless tires. The Sector 28s may come eventually. But don't really want to go that big. Still have the 23C tubeless Hutch on the scandium duraAce wheels... FWIW

6/11/15 11:42 PM

I mostly ride Michelin latex and the only downside is the non-replaceable cores. I have yet to get a conventional flat with my latex tubes. This is in 2+ seasons. Previously I would get 1-2 flats per year with butyl tubes.

The only flat I've had with latex was from a sidewall gash (from a branch) that destroyed the tire.

6/12/15 5:28 AM

Interesting thread on weightweenies about sudden failures of latex tubes. Use lots of talc.
http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=132987

I don't use them primarily due to cost, but they do ride nice.

6/12/15 5:50 AM

Seems to me that shooting 2-4 oz of sealant into a tube negates the advantage of the lighter tubes.

Do you really get that many flats that this is the solution. I carry a tube, CO2 and a lever with me for flats and a spoke wrench. I have not been stranded or the likes in over 20 years, and that includes my 6 years in Phoenix with the cacti everywhere.

For a MTB in the desert it makes sense.

6/12/15 8:48 AM

I already run light front tire, and as you say negates. Not after the weight, 'additional savings' on top of these wheels which are already light.

But ride feel and warding off flats with a tubeless rim which is not the friendliest to get a tire on and off now that tubeless rims are thrust upon us. The tubeless tires are as heavy as a tire tube combos mostly it seems. And although I have not flatted on the 7801 tubeless setup, I have a good dose of paranoia of a non seal situation, and the tubular like mess and time that will follow on the road. My last tubular ride that convinced me I was done and to sell it all off was a sealant poo out, done.

14cents..

6/12/15 2:42 PM

Can you really tell a difference in ride quality?

I've ridden tubeless, latex tubes, and regular tubes and I could not tell any difference in any of them. I thought I was sophisticated in ride feel, but I guess not.

I did pinch flat a tubed tire on a tubeless rim the other day.

6/12/15 3:26 PM

"Can you really tell a difference in ride quality?"

With these two tires, yes for sure. I will try the 320 TPI tires which already feel nice to see if an improvement. And then the GP4KS Chilis. I am wondering if the single casing 320 TPI VS the GP4s 3 layers stacked for the 180 TPI or what ever it is will make a difference as far as feel.

6/12/15 3:31 PM

The difference is more noticeable with supple, high thread count tires.

6/13/15 12:36 AM

"The difference is more noticeable with supple, high thread count tires."

I expect that, and was also surprised with the Pro4 Service Course. Not exactly a supple tire I don't think...

6/13/15 7:34 AM

...is much less than the manufacturers recommend. I typically use 1/2 to as little as 1/3 of what they recommend in road tires and it works just fine. It amounts to around 20 grams per tire. The same percentage of recommended quantity works fine in MTB tires, too. For the fat bike...well...who cares how much weight it adds.

6/13/15 9:27 AM

I use 1-1/2-2 OZ ea.

6/13/15 10:42 AM

I think it was Jobst Brandt who said you can't feel the difference in ride but you can hear the difference. There is a small measurable difference in rolling resistance too.

(Like all weightweenies, I went through a latex tube phase but they are too unreliable and leaky for the type of riding I was doing.)

6/14/15 4:29 PM

I could relate this to the tread by asking if you use latex tubes in the fat bike you guys have, but I'm really just wondering how you like it and what type of riding you find it useful for.

I had about figured one wouldn't be useful for me, but I ran into an old cycling buddy yesterday who said he raced on one last winter and it was a blast. On snowmobile trails, I think. Must admit, that sounds like big fun. He said stop by the shop, we have a demo set up....

So what do you think?

Unfortunately my friend had his arm in a sling from a broken collarbone from a MB accident. "Old habits die hard" he said...

6/14/15 5:16 PM

"Like all weightweenies, I went through a latex tube phase"

Not in it for the weight personally. Time will tell if the sealant/latex tube flat thing is worthwhile. My initial sense of the ride feel good so far. But once you get used to a feel, not sure it remains appreciated...

6/14/15 5:31 PM

In the right terrain, a fat bike is great. We don't get enough snow here and none of my friends had a Fat. If conditions were best for a fat, the mtb guys could not keep up at all. If conditions were better for a regular mtb, the fat can not keep up.

I no longer do real mtb'ing and honestly had no real use for the fat, so I sold it. It was a fun side trip, but was not really that useful. There are a lot of short term owners of fat bikes.

6/15/15 5:44 AM

Fat bikes are great in the sand and snow, as the wide tires are really at their best on soft surfaces where their tendency to self-steer at low pressures is not a problem. While some people rave about them on trails, I'm still trying to find the optimum air pressure that eliminates self-steer while not being too harsh on the rough stuff (my fat bike is a fully rigid with a carbon fork, though I have a Bluto fork that I haven't used yet). The gearing range on my fattie is also pretty limited currently, which is fine for sand and snow, but it becomes and issue on trails. The amount of climbing and cornering traction that the fattie provides is amazing, but it's still sluggish compared to my hardtail 29er, so the latter will still be my go-to bike for trail riding.

BTW, I run my tires tubeless @ 4-6 psi for sand and snow, 9-10 for trails. It's a whole 'nuther world...

6/15/15 10:30 AM

Not into them for the weight either. The Michelin latex tubes I use are more than 50% heavier than the Vittoria EVO lightweight butyls I was using before.

6/15/15 4:54 PM

I'd probably use one only on snow, so it would be a limited use vehicle, and I'll probably pass. But I'll admit hauling a$$ on snowmobile trails sounds fun. I don't ride dirt trails other than what I can handle on a cross bike.

I'm not sure if it would be very useful for winter commuting, I currently use 2" studded Hakkas, which are great on everything except where there's enough snow that the studs can't bite into anything. I'd have to ride the Fatty to get a feel for that, but it's an unusual condition.

A few years ago a guy rode away from me on a climb at D2R2 on a Fatty. I'm like, WTF. I saw him after the ride and he finished the 180k in 9 1/2 hours which is, how shall I says this , effin' fast on any bike in my world. I think he was a pretty good rider.

6/15/15 5:07 PM

Did a 30+ mile ride. I used a little more air that usual, but it still rode nicer. It was most obvious when you hit the blips on the concrete sections/expansion joints on the MUT. Where you are off the paved sections and on cement. Feels more like a balloon than a solid tire, a muted thud instead of a hard hit that rattles you and the bike. This was with the 23C, did not get ti the bigger tires yet...

6/16/15 5:46 AM

...that latex tubes make that much of a difference compared to a decent butyl tube. I daresay that a pound or two of air pressure difference will change the feel a lot more than a latex tube, unless perhaps if you were running those extra-thick Slime tubes previously.

As with most things, if you believe that there's a difference, you'll feel one.

6/16/15 8:58 AM

You can write it off as my imagination all you want, which is a little insulting frankly. I get that though. Exactly why I do things like have steel, Ti, AL, and plastic bikes. And why I have 23-47mm tires, so I can experience things first hand.

I am not a fooking idiot, there is a clear difference. Is it transparent and you forget about it while on super smooth pave?, yes. Will it be worthwhile in the end, I will find out. Is it a lot cheaper than a new bike, do some math...

I wonder if the sealant itself has a perceivable dampening effect. Maybe I will test ride the next set prior to putting in sealant.

6/16/15 10:32 AM

A bazzilion years ago I saw a guy auger in using early latex tubes. It split right down the side for no reason and tire blew flat. He hit a guard rail, but luckily walked away.

I have never used them though I have been tempted. I think these days, I will just pass on them. They are to hard to find in my neck of the woods anyway.


They look like beefed up balloons when flat.

6/16/15 10:42 AM

"It split right down the side for no reason"

No reason, eh? ;)

I think it possible if not probable a LOT of 'Fails' are end user error. Latex or not when it come to tubes/tires et al.

Splits on any tube suggest to me a tire bead pinch during mounting. Not that a I saw that too much when fixing one of a gazzilion flats the owner could not seem to fix solo when I worked at the LBS.

6/16/15 11:52 AM

I tried latex tubes over 20 years ago, so my experience may be meaningless. I had tons of flats and they split like Erik described. Sudden, unexplained failures. I installed them with lots of talc powder, as I did butyl tubes. I never got the courage or had any desire to try them again, but maybe they are better now.

6/16/15 12:39 PM

I have the same latex MTN tubes in my Steel Stumpjumper from the early 90s. Which is hard for me to believe.

I wonder if the lower pressures folks [me] are running will impact the latex tube in some way. After all, my MTN latex tube never saw more than 45 lbs. They are some sickly looking baggy dead baloon looking things if I take them out for a tire swap...