5/28/15 10:48 AM

Well, looked on strava and I put about 2k kilos on them. Back wheel has started popping spokes. First it was just a nipple (common with Al nipples) now two NDS spokes gave up the ghost.

I come in a 169lbs soaking wet this AM and push an estimated 300 watts on climbs (more standing less seated of course).

The carbon rims and hubs have been fine, the spokes on the back are to light for my weight and output.

I plan on putting in some new spokes and giving them another 2k or riding.

Long story short, light wheels are not for everyday riding which I have used them for and I may be just a bit heavy for the design in general.

I am not upset about my findings, I only spent $450 for them and they are slush money from eBay sales.

The front wheel has been flawless.

Keep this in mind if you consider a set from the far east.

Sparky and walter suggested Sampin spokes.

5/28/15 12:23 PM

Kind of 'cx-ray' are apropos, but @ 3.00 per spoke VS the connection I gave you for 14/15 Race for 40 cent per...

Having said that, I think the cx-ray is going to do better for you from what I have seen of use in lower spoke counts & higher tension. I mean they are just forged flattened Lasers. But the reads that this process causes a difference [improvement in grain structure?] seems to be true from long term use reports.

Did you notice if nipple washers where used? I am thinking better that spokes are breaking than spoke bed structure being the issue.

I am thinking maybe that wheel may wheel have been under tensioned. Question is how will the spoke bed fair under higher tension. These failures moved to there, then you are taking more of a safety issue IMO.

Who is fitting new spokes in them and truing for you? Have they put a tension meter on them or have a comment regarding same?

5/28/15 1:51 PM

Sound perfect for a 130 lb rider who wants light carbon wheels for recovery rides.

5/28/15 3:40 PM

2 1/2 seasons on 50mm deep 25mm wide carbon rims on Novatec 271/371 hubs.
Banged them thru all kinds of crap. Still true, no spoke issues. Did replace all bearings in rear hub-only the freehub bearings were actually shot.

Do it again in a heartbeat. Only 130 lbs here so ymmv

5/28/15 4:28 PM

@dan.

Or just saved for special occasions as most people do with wheels like these.

@sparky I will lace them and take the to my shop in Columbia for tensioning. I may just do it all myself. It would not be my first time. I will get a spoke tensions guage if I do. I pluck checked them when I swapped the nipple that popped and very well could have contributed to the spoke breaks.

5/28/15 4:31 PM

My experience with non drive side spokes breaking is that using thinner, lighter spokes reduces the cycling and increases durability. Thats why its common the use 14/15 on the drive side and 14/17 on the non drive.

5/28/15 4:40 PM

I dunno about the wheels, and I'm just going by what you say. IMHO if a performance wheel cannot handle 300 watts, which you suggest, it's a POS. That's like saying I have a great NASCAR car except I can't drive it over 60 mph. 300 watts is not exactly elite power production. And what difference does it make how often you use the wheel?

5/28/15 6:34 PM

Good point.

5/28/15 6:47 PM

I would need to see; spoke bed drillings, hub drillings, and j bends of the spokes to see if I would/could trust a rebuild of just spokes to make a solvent wheel frankly. If the 1st two are OK, I see no reason [except one] that a balanced wheel could not be made again with all new spokes and nipples. I'd probably do as stated, lighter ga on the non drive side. And a cross pattern high as I could given the drilling/spoke count.

The except one is: if that wheel had to have the tension all over the place due to a rim that was not or could not be straight and round to begin with.

I suspect this, or that it was just under tensioned.

If it was under tensioned because the rim drive side max tension was of concern I would bail on it frankly. I'd probably try 14/15 Race on the drive side and Lasers [14/17] or cx-rays on the NDS [IF the rim hole are perfect AND no hub drilling mangle] and see what my tension ga sez. I'd try the laser before I paid for cx-ray as a stop gap.

I would need to know from the manufacturer [a real life #] what the max tension the rim is made to. If you have to go higher than that on the drive side to get the NDS to be of at least 80-90 kgf, I'd bail on that wheel. Or at least rim/spokes/nips. But at that point $85.00 for a new hub is probably well spent anyway...

Maybe get a new/other rear wheel and use it with the front. It is likely being that a front is symmetrical and lower tension will, or may well be a non issue. I'd sure put a tension meter on it to make sure it IS tensioned with good reasonable balance.

What was the cross pattern and spoke number?

And, you get what you pay for I guess. Please do not get hurt riding these...

5/28/15 7:49 PM

Sparky and the gang, I took the suspect back wheel off that should be obvious folks. It won't get ridden again until I can work it out. If I can't get a good wheel out of it I will turn it into an end table.

I have no intention on getting hurt.

I would point out, I have had high dollar Cane Creek wheels that popped spokes also.

Of course CC quit making wheels and I don't think they are even around any more. Hmmmm.

5/28/15 8:20 PM

You may be able to get an idea of 'especially' the difference in spoke tension via pitch.

5/29/15 5:32 AM

...are inevitably due to fatigue caused by a lack of sufficient tension. Your weight and power output have nothing to do with it. As suggested by others, using the lightest (and therefore most elastic) spokes you can find on the NDS will produce a more durable wheel as long as it's properly tensioned and stress relieved. The natural tendency when spokes fail is to assume that one needs heavier spokes, but that's absolutely the wrong thing to do.

5/29/15 8:34 AM

Max spoke tension on the label

130KgF

don't know how that compares to other rims or if it is high or low. Y'all are the expert wheel builders.

5/29/15 8:55 AM

Not an expert, but in about 40 wheels or so now. If the drive side is tensioned right at max, the NDS with lighter spokes will be high enough IMO. Again, the rim needs to be straight and round to start with so a balanced tension will make it so after it is ready to roll.

I'd still want to look close at the spoke bed/holes where the nipples seat to see if riding it loose [or uneven tension] did any damage before ordering spokes. And if it is actually round and flat after dis-assembly.

Now that you have a guitar and assuming also a tuning device.. Can you get a feel for how close each side spokes are to that side to each other. And the NDS lower and close to each other in tone. Use that chart as a rough guide to this.

5/29/15 11:23 AM

It's harder to have a perfectly round carbon rim than an aluminum one.

Manufacturing tolerances are different. And perhaps cheaper carbon rims are less perfectly round. So given the dish it's not surprising the nds would have inadequately tensioned spokes. You have to figure whether it's the rim or the build that was at fault.

5/29/15 4:28 PM

I will tear down the wheel, measure the spoke lengths and inspect the rim on a glass table and see if it is straight.

Remember this.

A drive side Al nipple popped a very common break.

I replaced the DS nipple and crudely tried the wheel.

Therefore the NDS spoke breaks could have been my fault and in fact the second broken spoke may have been the one I put in and I screwed up the replacement.

I am not defending the wheel at all I just don't want the gang to think the problem is totally the original build when in fact it could be my shitty work with a spoke wrench that is at fault.

I will say the wheel was pretty flexible compared to my Fulcrum truck wheels, which I don't find surprising at all.

I just want recage everyone to everyone to what that took place.

5/30/15 6:23 AM

It is likely the wheels were 100% machine built which gets you a 97% complete product. Close, but not enough. That is, it is likely that the spokes were under tensioned just enough for you to experience spoke breakage. From my own experience, I've learned that new wheels need touch up hand service. If you are going to purchase a tension meter (recommended), consider purchasing or borrowing a dishing tool, too. Good luck.

5/30/15 8:52 AM

"consider purchasing or borrowing a dishing tool, too. Good luck."

I never got the dish tool. Measure from the rim to the axle tube, flip wheel.... repeat.

Should be obvious which side needs to move toward which side.

5/30/15 8:59 PM

Well that works, too, if you are very good at very *precise* measurements. I'm not. The dish tool is fool proof and it is an inexpensive tool, too. I'm also tone deaf, so a tension meter is a must.

5/30/15 10:51 PM

I've been really impressed with the DT Swiss R23 wheels that I bought to go on the Lynskey. I've only put a couple of thousand kilometres on them so far, as I've only had them a couple of months, but they're still dead true. 23mm wide rims, straight-pull spokes, so no J-bend to work-harden and break, and a claimed weight of 1600g for the set.

Wiggle in the UK are selling them for under $US400 the set: http://www.wiggle.com.au/dt-swiss-r-23-spline-alloy-road-wheelset/