3/21/15 4:35 PM

Put a zero sum craigslist ad to cover the deposit on my next Strong frame and first guy took it full price.

<img src="http://coupekiss.host-ed.me/images/pics/Gold-BR400-Fin-60.jpg" width=584>

3/21/15 5:39 PM

What model and what did you ask/get for it?

3/21/15 6:32 PM

1986 400 and my personal splashage of paint. sold for $800.00, my asking price. The shiny polished Crane Suzu Bell I put on it obviously put it over the top.

They go nuts for this stye bike here. In 2012 I got 475.00 for a Trek 730 hybrid redux also with triple and indexed barcons. Not nearly as pretty. But the Bridgestone 400 triple butted main tube frame seem to really Cadillac out the ride on pave.

3/22/15 7:16 AM

Wow, $800??!! My first "adult" bike was a '85 Bridgestone 400 and I paid $250 for it brand new. I never realized a paint job and bell could add so much value.

3/22/15 7:38 AM

I doubt that I could get $800 for my Calfee. Tell us about the Strong.

3/22/15 10:33 AM

Strong; Steel disc Monster CX Adventure. Semi Compact Di2, tweaked for 700 and 650B. Pretty much a disc TCX replacement for my main off piste squeeze and a few more...
1-1/8 Head tube fork before that option disappears.

Tapered Fork / Head tube [like Roubaix] are totally overkill, add weight and are in the scheme of overly stiff the industry has embraced I want no part of.

Selling the TCX and the Gary 29er as the Strong will replace the uses, my Swiss Army bike. The Disc Roubaix is also getting deposed/disposed, the new Strong my winter road bike as well. It [Roubaix] has really not satisfied me as a purchase frankly. Financial value fine, I mean swinging it as a hammer.


And I will be designing [rube-ing] the the color and cosmetics same as I did on my road strong back when/when. Intend to get more creative now that I have a decade of guitar designs/builds under my built.

<img src="http://coupekiss.host-ed.me/images/tdpri/Burton-esque-Tele.jpg" width=228>

3/23/15 4:53 AM

Tapered forks and head tubes stiffen the front end where it needs to be stiffer for better control. This allows engineers to design flex into the blades, where you want/need it, at least with carbon fiber frames and forks. This isn't as necessary on small frames, but the difference with large frames can be huge. Tapered front ends don't have to be brutally stiff and the industry is moving in the direction of more vertical compliance, while maintaining lateral stiffness, the "holy grail" of frame design. With steel, you can't have both and you pay a substantial weight penalty either way. For those and other reasons, I'll probably never buy another steel bike. Nostalgia for the anachronistic ride of steel doesn't mean that much to me.

Obviously, "to each, his own".

3/23/15 9:32 AM

I am basing my comments on the few I have ridden, and the SL4 I own. So blanket statement wise I obviously can't know about any more/all of them. But all the ones with tapered I have ridden.

I do think a steel head tube/frame with huge HT for the tapered setup has got to be a somewhat serious weight addition though. But more than a steel fork when you add in a light tapered fork with it?? But the offerings are heavier it seems than non tapered forks have been I believe.

I took the AME of my strong years ago in favor of a less stiff HSC3. It now as a SS is sporting a Steel fork.

I still have not decided if the new one will get the Ritchey CX fork or if Carl will be fabricating a Steel for for me. Depends if a 45C Fire CX tire will fit in the Ritchey which I think it will.

What was about/among the stiffest carbon in 2009, my Addict HMX is plenty stiff for my huge ars. Everything newer I have ridden in carbon 2013-date has been more stiff than I am wiling to tolerate/endure.

The Roubaix has certainly lost it's way. The word Comfort is now gone from the web pages for the Roubaix, and it now says 'smoother is faster' instead. ;)

3/23/15 9:50 AM

I have never read a bike promotion that promotes a smoother ride. Its always stiffer this and stiffer that. I suspect thats part of the reason why we are seeing the change to fatter tires, to soften things up a bit. I'll say it: I prefer softer bikes.

3/23/15 10:38 AM

"I prefer softer bikes."

Me too, as long as the bottom end when I honk on it out of the saddle stays relativity put. Making me think of the old Y-foil while typing that.... Had both attributes in spades.

The 2006 Roubaix and the 2014 SL4 probably should not have the same name on them being so different. The SL2 I almost got when I worked at the Spesh LBS in 2012 was not much different then the 2006. When they did the SL4 they went all in is all I can say. Having ridden the SL2 and currently own the 2006 and the SL4.


The SL4 kind of reminds me of the C35 I had 15 years ago. And as a disc model 15 years newer, it is heavier than the steel threaded steerer C35 was too. ;)

3/28/15 7:48 PM

The industry is flooded with bikes advertising "comfort" and "endurance". Even pro level race machines are seeing some of the same changes. The pendulum had swung too far in the direction of stiffness and now it's swinging the other way.

4/5/15 11:09 AM

Interesting data point. Not that I am considering a tapered head tube on the new frame. But Carl told me the steel headtube for tapered is about 4x the weight of a 1-1/8"


Part of a post I posted elsewhere:
I am sticking with a 1-1/8" headtube. For some reason one thing the industry seem to have added in carbon designs to make them not break and have to be warrantied?? Thus making them un-Goodly stifff.. [IMO] like tapered head tube, hello.

Why are folks thinking and putting/trending this on a steel bike is good in any fashion??. Even the Lemond Road frame has that.

Does this makes a little more sense for a Ti bike, what 2x the weight.. 3?

Maybe Ti over steel for these frames if tapered, which to be what everyone is buying/building...

4/6/15 5:32 AM

There is no advantage to having flex in a head tube or steerer tube. All it does is adversely affect steering precision and cause headset bearing wear. Flex in the system can be built into the fork blades and tailored to the weight and preferences of the rider.

I've never heard anyone claim that tapered headtubes/steerers are lighter. That wouldn't make sense, given that they are larger and have more material in them. Also the weight of the larger headset bearings, particularly the 1.5" bearing at the bottom, is substantial, much more than any savings from eliminating the bearing cups. For example, my Look frame and fork with a 1 1/8" steerer is heavier than my Cannondale frameset with a tapered steerer, but with the headset bearings included they are essentially identical.

I would also argue that the one of biggest issues from a comfort perspective is that handlebars have become outrageously stiff and transmit much more road vibration to the rider. Contrary to what you may often see in print, it doesn't make a damned bit of difference if the bar is carbon fiber or aluminum; if you take a significant whack with any really stiff bar, you're going to feel it.

4/6/15 10:10 AM

"There is no advantage to having flex in a head tube or steerer tube. All it does is adversely affect steering precision and cause headset bearing wear."

And what is the advantage exactly of a system so rigid, past where it actually need to be. To the point that it makes following a line on a bumpy turn on a descent less ______ choose your own word. And a system too flexy has it's handling issues as well. How about one in the middle place the industry passed by in 2012?? Not that I have ridden that may bike since 2012 of course...

I have never went through a bottom HS bearing personally.

4/7/15 5:49 AM

...that while some frames have gone way too far to the stiff side, adding flex in the head/steerer tube is not the answer to the problem. Designing flex into the fork blades and handlebars is what's necessary to make a front end more comfortable and better tracking on rough surfaces.

4/7/15 5:55 AM

My Chinese made carbon bar/stem definitely took some sting out of the front end of my bike, while in the drops, the hoods and tops still feel pretty stiff though. Carbon bars can be tailored to suit the use, metal bars are not that customizable, tubes are tubes so to speak. Carbon is better for this.

4/7/15 6:55 AM

Are there particular handlebars that have the flexibility to increase comfort?

4/7/15 10:38 AM

"adding flex in the head/steerer tube is not the answer to the problem."

And I guess my point that making the front end stiffer when it was already plenty stiff... pre existing 1-1/8 is not "adding flex"... ;) it is not adding anything. It added stiffness which I found benefit, adding more goes beyond benefit. Empirically for me rolling down the road.

I know for example both Sandiway and myself at a point in time have removed AME forks from out bikes and put back on the previous Looks. I think more than 1-1/8" is marketing BS too many folks are buying. I am 210 lbs+ and an aggressive rider. Too stiff tracks poorly in bumpy fast turns.

Gimme the damn Goldie Locks frame is all I am trying to get at. And 'IMO' a taperd fork and headtube ain't it!

4/8/15 5:04 AM

They are structurally superior because you can use more continuous fibers from the blades up through the crown and into the steerer than you can with a straight steerer. Again, with a strong, stiff crown and steerer, the fork designer can tailor the flex in the fork blades to achieve whatever level of compliance they want. The trend is to build more comfort/compliance into them now, which wasn't the case just a few years ago. There are myriad examples of bikes designed for long ride comfort that incorporate tapered steerer tubes. In fact, it's uncommon to find any new design that doesn't incorporate this element.

Taking the tapered crown/steerer in isolation is like saying that the only thing that matters in frame design is bottom bracket stiffness. It's just one element of an overall package.

Like it or not, tapered steerer tubes are here to stay and it's quite likely that 1 1/8" steerer carbon forks will fade away soon, just as the 1" have.

We saw the same thing with handlebars when the CEN changed their testing standards and everyone started making them super stiff. This became a real problem with carbon bars, since they can be made really stiff without a huge weight penalty. Hopefully, bar manufacturers will start to temper their enthusiasm for stiffness and produce products that are more comfortable to use.

4/8/15 12:02 PM

"are structurally superior"

I deem my 1-1/8" is adequately structurally superior enough. ;) Haven't busted one off yet anyway, maybe I should not have said that. ;O

I choose 1-1/8" for the new frame. Happy someone is actually still making a disc fork for the non tapered. Ritchey/WCS seems to feel there is a market still as they just released a new one. Seems the best choice of what I am seeing. I actually consider having Carl make a steel fork as I have one year ago he made I put on the Merckx EX I had.

For disc do you think the tapered makes more sense? Seems like the added stress would be predominately mid leg mostly??

Thoughts?

4/9/15 5:37 AM

Regardless of the type of brake, you get the same force applied at the fork crown. The difference is that a disc brake adds a torque component at the dropout.

4/9/15 11:13 AM

I did not think so crown wise, so is the tapered design a benefit to disc use after all?

And bend/torque the disc side leg along the length pretty well, lets not forget that. ;)

4/10/15 5:27 AM

The tapered crown is structurally beneficial in general. It adds to the torsional stiffness of the fork, so in that regard it would help with disk brakes, though the fork blade design is the most critical element.