2/19/15 7:48 PM

So I'm a total newbie to music and guitars, but one of the things that have always been on my bucket list is to learn to play guitar. It's nothing that I "need" to do right away (it's been on my bucket list since the song Play Guitar by John Mellencamp), but the winter blues are starting to kick in and I always seem to think about things like this to do. Plus my birthday is coming up and the wife may just go for something like this. It started today when we brought our daughter to a music store to replace her flute. We walked out of there with a used flute for her and I spied a pretty cheap starter set. It's the Squier by Fender with 10G amp for $200. So I know it's cheap and not that great, but like I said I know nothing and am starting from ground zero.

My questions are:
1) Is that actually a good starter set, knowing that it isn't the best or if I will even like it? (or should I get the next one up with the 15G amp for $250? or something else that someone suggests)

2) I don't have time during the day or the money to pay someone for lessons, so is there good starter videos online that I could watch? Or if I don't have time for the lessons, should I just not even try it?

Let me know what you guys think! I'm sure a few of you will have opinions! :)

2/19/15 8:22 PM

Erik is your best guy to talk to, him having pretty much just taken the journey himself.

Google TABS for songs you might want or be interested in playing. There are a ton of folks on youtube that put up vids with lessons of a ton of songs that should be easy to follow.

If you are talking Electric guitar which it sounds like, I would suggest you either go Craigslist for a starter kit someone has that is not getting love. Because IMO it will be just throwing away money frankly buying new.

What I would suggest new if you are going to go Squier is to stick with the Vintage Modified or Custom Vibe series. They are actually quite good IMO, and not junk as I feel the lesser Squiers are. You can find these used at Guitar center, and have time to return for any reason.

Also get an amp on C-List, be glad to suggest some things if you give me an idea of what you may want to do and direction of playing etc.

2/19/15 8:37 PM

I went the acoustic route. I want to be able to play by the fire and like the sound.

I got a Fender t-bucket, it has an electric pickup/tuner but I have never jacked it in.

I have learned quite a bit using my Mac Garage Band, which you can jack into with a cable adapter. I have also learned a ton from YouTube, martyzsong is a great presenter of the basics. Search around.

Ultimate Guitar Tabs has a bazzillion tabs (which is the 21st century form of guitar music notation). I have the app on my ipad because the paper copies ended up all over the living room.

Pick songs you like. Use easy open chords first. Don't shy away from finger style/plucking music. It is fun to play and using the tabs can be easily learned.

I have found I don't like a pick and have learned you can play the way you like, don't be roped into the pick and strum thing you expect to be the norm.



This is what I play every day. $231
My fingers are well calloused now.

A guy in Portland who makes electric guitars has given me a few pointers also.

2/19/15 9:03 PM

Use the search here and search for 'guitar' and put 'ErikS' in the 'Search for Author:' field. Can see sorta the path that occurred when Erik began his quest. ;)

2/20/15 7:23 AM

There has been plenty of good advice given on this board about guitars. I'm going to throw in a few points...

0. Simple is best. I will say more or less the same thing throughout this post, but if you're getting an electric, something like a Telecaster (very simple construction, no whammy bar, simple electrics) is likely to prove better than something like a Stratocaster (vibrato bridge, fairly fancy switching, three pickups, etc).

1. Your best value is a decent used guitar. Yamaha some of the best, but there are many others.

2. Acoustic guitars are generally unique and it's seldom that two will come from the factory or luthier's hands sounding the same. I tend to attribute this to variations in wood, gluing, etc. Electrics generally are a little less unique, because much of the sound comes from very standardized parts like pickups. I *might* buy an electric sight unseen; I would *never* buy an acoustic without playing that *particular* guitar. (Takeaway: Find someone who knows how to play, and take them with you to demonstrate any instrument you're looking at).

3(b): Do some basic condition checking--the top shouldn't have large cracks in it, on acoustics the top should generally be flat, not pulling up near the bridge, and the saddle should neither be vanishing into the bridge nor be sticking up too high. The strings should be reasonably close to the fretboard--if you're seeing 1/4" of air between the strings and the board where the neck joins the body, RUN AWAY. Necks should be reasonably straight if you look along them. A LITTLE bow is not terrible. Arched necks, see about w/r/t 1/4" of air. RUN. As you play up the neck, just fretting and picking, you should not hear a string "die" or buzz. On electrics, you shouldn't hear noise when the cord moves around in its socket, or when you adjust the controls. Intonation can generally be adjusted on electrics--not on acoustics.

3. For me, second only to sound is the feel of the neck. I own three guitars right now; two of them (an Ibanez and a Giannini) have OK necks. But I absolutely love the neck on my little Martin. And I would KILL for an Alembic electric--best neck ever, but at $10,000, unlikely.

4. If you're going to play acoustic, strings make a big difference. Heavier strings are harder to play. As a beginner, you might want to put a silk & steel set on at first. S&S is great for fingerpicking, and easy on the left hand, but a little quieter than brass or bronze. One of my acoustics is set with S&S at all times.

5. Don't worry about gew-gaws like fancy finishes and inlays and electronics like tuners. You can get a digital tuner that clamps to the peghead for $10. They're wonderful.

6. As Erik says, pick songs you like. I strongly suggest buying a chord book and then printing out as many words-and-chords sheets for music you like as you can find.

7. Buy a capo and learn to transpose, because sometimes songs are going to be written in keys that suck on guitars (e.g., E flat). A capo will let you play in C and sound in E flat (for example).

8. If you go electric, you will be tempted to buy an amp with effects up the wazoo. Don't. Or leave them along for six months. You can always get a bigger/better amp, so spend most of your money on the guitar.

9. Noodle. A lot. Leave the guitar in your hands while you listen to music or watch a movie. You'll find your fingers teaching themselves how to move between chords and play bass and lead. Let them. This will annoy spouses and other people in the room. Ignore them. It's easier to do this with an electric--just unplug it.

10. Thou shalt have fun. If you don't feel like playing, don't play. But if you do...


OK. That's way too much and not enough. Post us some links!

2/20/15 12:49 PM

Ok, so lots of great advice as usual. Thanks for the links on the advice given before. I went through and read most of it and spend much more time listening to great music on the links!! :)

Good advice on the Telecaster vs Stratocaster from Andy and the suggestions from Sparky! Thanks for the places to look Erik, I'll be checking out the same youtube videos as you! And the advice on bringing someone with me if I buy used. Because I certainly don't know what I'm looking for. Getting it from a used store may be a better idea for me because then I can hope they will have repaired anything that needs to be or price it appropriately.

I really don't want to spend a lot because I'm not going to be very good for a while, even if that means I have to dump what I do buy and get something that will be better. But the advice on buying one of the starter sets used is great! That I do like.

I know this is a cheap amp, but looks like a similar one to the kits that are sold :

http://annarbor.craigslist.org/msg/4873244173.html And for $30 that is cheap.

Also this looks like a great guitar to grow into: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uopw3cPhRk Not sure if I can find one used though. Thought there was one two hours away, but not sure if it was the same or not, but it's sold now so doesn't really matter. Is this similar to what you were speaking of Sparky and Andy?

Music I like and would want to play in no particular order: AC/DC, Van Halen (as if I ever could), The Cult, Nirvana, Foo Fighters, Weezer, SRV (as if again), Joe Satriani (as if again), Led Zeppelin, Soundgarden, Rush, Pearl Jam, Yeah Yeah Yeahs, Queen, Everclear, Faith No More, and some newer "progressive rock" bands such as Passion Pit, MGMT, Phoenix. I know that's a huge list, but wanted to give you an idea of what I like... I'd probably start with AC/DC assuming it's fairly easy.

2/20/15 12:50 PM

I agree with all [except #8], and especially with 'Telecaster' and 'neck'. I also like the Danelectric DC59 and U2 for great cheap guitars. Although similarly to getting a full on race bike as your first. your ability to decipher the upper level problematic. But if SRV is at your root motivations, it will be hard to resist that Strat. [Clapton, Cray, Gilmore, Trower, Blackmore, Nils, Sambora, Hendrix, Buddy Holly and Guy................... ........ ....] ;)

Same with neck, what you may think you like now you may later find with experience of developing a personal style, yada.

As to the amp, to put it in prospective. If a little amp has an effect that a genre of music played by a certain player helps to get you to feel that music, nothing wrong with that being a beginning iMO.

And in favor of #8 too, I strongly recommend if you do wind up with a modeling amp that has a plethora of effects ignore them for a while. ;)

2/20/15 1:19 PM

My main point with necks--and I think I agree with Sparky, your taste may change over time--is that many inexpensive guitars will layer on the cheap sparkle and paint *but* give you a neck that's rather chunky. Many steel-string and electric players like to use their thumb to "strangle" the guitar on the lower frets, e.g., to give an "F" bass note without playing the F as a barre chord. That's hard to do if you're working with a fat neck. (Fat necks are one reason I dislike Epiphones that I've played.)

That Tele looks like a very nice instrument; I play mainly acoustic these days, and my only electric is a "semi-solid" (Ibanez AS73), but here's what I do know:

You've listed a very wide range of electric players...some play strats or teles with longish scale lengths and single-coil pickups, some are Les Paul players, who prefer shorter scale lengths (OK, the difference is less than an inch) and humbucking pickups. These factors make a difference.

If I were you, I would go with a Tele-style guitar for the simplicity (and Fender-style guitars generally have slim, fast necks) and use it to learn how to play. (One thing to look at: some Teles have Maple fingerboards [finished] and some have Rosewood [unfinished]--try 'em both.)

Then, you may want to acquire something like a Les Paul or SG copy with humbuckers. Generally, these two will give you a bigger, fatter sound; single-coil guitars tend to be a little thinner and sharper. Unfortunately, getting a good guitar that can do both is certainly pricey and maybe impossible...

I once had an inexpensive Squier Tele that had a humbucker in the bridge position and a single-coil in the neck position, and that was fun; I think I preferred my old Gibson Marauder though, which reversed that arrangement; the neck humbucker could produce the thickest, warmest, most beautiful tone. But that was a long time ago, and the rest of the guitar was ugly as sin.

I strongly suggest going to a good music shop with a friend and playing around with things. See what feels good, and what sounds good.

2/20/15 1:31 PM

I just traded this Tele off I had picked up on Craigslist for 260 space bucks. I'll post for examples sake.

2010 MIM [Made In Mexico] Blacktop Series. I could have gigged with it easily. Quality and tone easily fit into the category of 'tool' an electric should be IMO. ;)

In the scheme of Fender things I should mention the hierarchy goes MIA, MIM, MIK, then the CHN and Indonesia made stuff mostly

MIA=America, MIM Mexixo, K=Korea CHN=China, etc

2/20/15 2:43 PM

I am going to humbly disagree about getting the cheapest amp to start. i would go up 2-3 steps from the bottom and get a 12" speaker. Power is not important but nice sound is.

My son started with a squire strat kit and the amp was so bad he rarely used it. I got him a tube type and he uses it a lot more.

2/20/15 2:45 PM

Sparky-that Tele is a somewhat unusual bird. Humbuckers and Rosewood. I like the combo but obviously resale is low on it. I think it makes sense.

2/20/15 2:56 PM

"Sparky-that Tele is a somewhat unusual bird. Humbuckers and Rosewood."

True

" I like the combo but obviously resale is low on it. I think it makes sense."

Not really, I think MSRP was under 500.00 on that series.
I got about 400.00 worth in trade at the used level of what I took for it. They seem to sell for 200 under MSRP used maybe.

eBay completed list might bear that out.

Me personally am mostly a rosewood guy. Single coils are bright enough without a ample neck. ;) But really the speaker is the final word.

Hey, I bet you will appreciate this. I picked up a JBL K130 a little while ago. 100.00 ebay snipe with local pickup...

Last edited by Sparky on 2/20/15 2:59 PM; edited 1 time in total

2/20/15 2:58 PM

I'm just saying that the guitar is MORE important.

My first amp was a Pignose. One (1) knob. Absolutely wonderful--I even got wah-wah effects by unlatching it and having my brother open and close the box (it was hinged because you could--in theory--run that 5W amp off batteries, and the battery case was inside the amp).

And I stand by my "don't mess around too much with the goodies" statement. Especially when you're just learning chords. Find a sound that's acceptable, and go with that.

Personally, I really like my Fender Mustang--but I could spend weeks messing with the modeling, and I don't think that's a good idea before you learn chords...

2/20/15 3:10 PM

The Mustang amps are pretty darn good. And I don't mean to criticize your comments what-so-ever.

My fav I have is a VOX 15R head pulled out of the 1x8 cab I use with a Red Fang Alnico and A BOSS fender reverb pedal. Although the VOX 15 'R' verb is not the worst I have heard. It actually has a spring in it. Ultimately I am an analog man in a digital world... mostly.. I do have some Active EMG pickups in one Tele. No modeling amp here for a long long time.

I do have a few old Fender tube amps... Other good analog amps I like are the Peavey Bandit and Studio Pro different 'stripes' iterations. So not a tube snob or anything like that.

2/20/15 3:42 PM

Let me get back on track and make a few comments on necks. Which IS IMO the heart of the guitar, think right fit on your bike frame perhaps...

Flatter and thinner = faster. single note playing/riffs/runs.
Flatter, as in bigger radius on the fretboad/frets. 12-16"

Bigger frets easier to get under the string for slurs/bends etc. Blues style?

Vintage size frets for single note runs need me to have been practicing and have my chops a bit polished else I sound less articulate. ;) Chording not so much.

IMO, thicker rounder necks transmit vibrations better and for cleaner playing can tend to sound less compressed amplified, very generally. Bear in mind most rock and blues is played pretty compressed. Less so your non distorted Strat players probably/maybe...

Out of 15+ electrics I grab a Tele mostly. My #1 is a Squier pine body from a Classic Vibe Series with a very nice Warmoth [as in warmoth.com, careful about visiting there] that resembles a baseball bat with vintage radius [7-1/4"] and stainless steel somewhat tall frets on a slab rosewood board. Simple all the way, basic dare I say. About my cheapest elec and the last one I would keep if they all had to go from a playing standpoint. Forest/trees et al

We can get into the effect pickups will have plugged in and the direction different types/winds may make upon request.

I do have a Dano U2, I find nothing sounds like them, they are light albeit quirky perhaps to play. But 'LIKE' for me any maybe you too. ;)

Let me not skip a comment on Scale. Gibson/Guild/Grestch 24-3/4" generally. Fender Starts and Teles 25.5", Fender Mustangs, Jag varieties usually 24". You may or may not have a preference, or gain one. 3/4" difference is not insignificant I would state. 1-1/2" difference is for me huge in scale comparisons. I do not own a 24" scale guitar, but probably has a lot to do with bear mitts for hands.

Longer scale frets a bit further apart, 24 fret guitars usually smaller scale and flatter radius with chunkier frets.

More important that all that as Andy has said, getting on a fretboard/guitar and getting playing is more important than over thinking all/any of that.

Most Fender necks are bolt on Maple and or Maple with a rosewood fretboard and 25.5" scale, radius 7-1/4 to 9" and some 10-12" albeit less.

Gibsons like SG mentioned are Mahogany set [as in glued in] with rosewood fretboard and 12"+ radius. I have a 84 Les Paul that is mahogany with w/ebony fretboard.

2/20/15 3:50 PM

I have wondered from time to time about the impact of scale length on sound...longer strings (e.g., Fender) require higher tension than shorter (e.g., Gibson). My experience has tended to be that Fender guitars "speak" a little more distinctly than Gibsons, but it's hard to pull out what part of that is the pickup (single coil v. humbucker) and what's body/neck type (maple bolt-on v. mahogany set-in), and what's string length.

And since most of my playing is acoustic, that's a whole bunch of additional factors...

2/20/15 3:54 PM

And spring reverb forever. I had a cheap 50 watt/12-inch Peavy combo back in the '70s. Solid state, very clean sounding. And it had a real spring revereb. I LOVED that.

My Mustang has digital reverb, and so it won't go boingy-boingy even if I kick it. It's just not the same.

2/20/15 4:01 PM

I wonder too if there is any correlation as to average string ga. used on Gibby VS Fender scale guitars.

I was using really heavy stings for a while. Once I git used to it I like the stronger tone I perceived. But I did notice I was tearing up frets a few fold faster too.

I lean lighter on the acoustics and med ga. on the electric. Maybe just so they seem familiar and similar to finger pressures.

I got a nylon classical in the Tele trade mentioned. Now that is a whole different finger and attack ball game I am learning. I get back on the electric and my attack is gone. ;)

But nothing has that soft attack/tone as that, which is what I was looking for to try transposing a few of my pieces, or pieces of my pieces. ;)

2/20/15 4:16 PM

Sparky, you forgot MIJ (Made in Japan).

Where do those guitars fit in the Fender hierarchy?

2/20/15 4:21 PM

B-John, re: that Tele youtube. Just want to mention that is pretty wet amplification there. As in dry would be ONLY the instrument clean through the amp. Wet as in effects added in with/over the dry signal.

Reverb and delay thoughout, and some Chorus as well I believe. Suffice to say that CV Tele can do clean to nasty well.

These tend to have pickups that are not too hot, so to speak.

So a hot pickup does dirt well and easily. A vintage lower output single coil pickup needs more help to get dirty and compressed. Humbuckers=fuller more compressed, fatter. Single Coils cleaner more articulate, ring chime yada.
One would tend to use more treble knob on the amp with humbuckers then single coils mostly.

Having said that. you can only un-dirty a hot pickup so much, where as you can dirty up a cleaner voiced pickup as far as you want. Folks that play very dirty will find fundamental flaws in that statement though...

Was the a particular part of that which the tone being illustrated was more/less appealing/spoke to you?


And http://used.guitarcenter.com has a search engine that you can plug in low/high price and proximity to your zip.

2/20/15 4:57 PM

"Sparky, you forgot MIJ (Made in Japan)."

Well I was talking semi current production. Getting MIJ current production is difficult at best.

"Where do those guitars fit in the Fender hierarchy?"

Very close to the top IMO. My #1 has MIJ re-issue Paisley pickups. And I have a box of pickups, including hand wound boo-tiquie 300 $ets. Leave it to Fender Japan to get that right. ;) They are very low resistance in case anyone knows what that correlates to.

I also have a 1967 Tele neck pickup which I have had since mid 70s. I like the MIJ reissues better.

Example here of said MIJ pickups in a pine Tele if anyone is interested. [please excuse the major third in the lick at the end of a minor progression.]

http://coupekiss.host-ed.me/images/tdpri/C50-Clean.m4a

[The throaty/barky tonal character is the Alnico Speaker FWIW]

2/20/15 5:18 PM

"And spring reverb forever. I had a cheap 50 watt/12-inch Peavy combo back in the '70s. Solid state, very clean sounding. And it had a real spring revereb. I LOVED that."

Peavey was alway good stuff! I still have a Classic 50 212 tweed that is the nastiest looking beatup great sounding amp. ;) Verb not quite up to Fender no surprise. ;)

I lean toward the tube driven in and out of the good Fenders. Having said that, the BOSS Fender Verb Pedal is a lot better than any verb of any sort in any amp I have had except the aforementioned actual tube driven circuits. Not that anyone in an audience except a player might notice. ;)

"My Mustang has digital reverb, and so it won't go boingy-boingy even if I kick it. It's just not the same."

Probably one of the best all around do about everything amps out there I would say.

I think the fixed dwell on SS verb circuits may be the missing factor. The Boss pedal has a dwell setting. The tube circuit dwell is just deep/there/and ethereal as that goes IMO. But did you know you can put in reverb tanks with different decay factor Andy? Just has to be of correct input impedance. The Mustang has a verb can/tank, yes?


My old Peavey tweed, How is this for road torn?

2/20/15 6:10 PM

A few MI area CL ads that look OK, assuming reasonable proximity to your travels.

http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/msg/4820978942.html

http://detroit.craigslist.org/wyn/msg/4896493089.html

2/20/15 7:27 PM

I have to say, get an acoustic first. It will teach you and strengthen you, when and if you pick up an electric they feel like child's play on the hands.

I have a cheap one in the closet that my wife inherited from a cousin. I can play it with ease but just don't like it. I am to simple for them.

2/20/15 7:29 PM

Some of the Mustangs may have reverb tanks, but not mine--it's all simulated.

That's what I miss; the sound of the real thing.

Here's my second-favorite electric of all time--35 years ago:



That's my 1979 Ibanez MC200DS, right after I finished building a preamp into it. That's me, 35 years ago, too.

W.T.F.