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OT - My iPhone knows where I'm going?
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Pat Clancy
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 1353
Location: Manchester, CT

12/2/14 1:07 PM

OT - My iPhone knows where I'm going?

So, for the last few months, every Tuesday and Thursday morning I drive to South Windsor, an adjacent town, to play pickleball. Yes, I’ve joined the legions of retirees who were looking for a competitive sport a step beyond shuffleboard. I can reach the South Windsor border in about 10 minutes but it takes about 25 minutes to get to the gymnasium on the far side of town.

Unrelated, I recently started using my iPhone's calendar, although as a retiree it seems like the only things I enter are doctor’s appointments. But I’m trying to get in the habit of checking the calendar every morning. The iPhone has a nifty feature - you don’t have to drill down to the calendar app, you can simply swipe downwards on the screen and a page appears that gives the weather and any scheduled calendar events for today and tomorrow.

This morning, a Tuesday, I swiped down and in addition to the standard information I found an interesting note. I was informed that it would take me approximately 23 minutes to drive to South Windsor. I’m both impressed and a little concerned about this. I know the cell company and gummint can track me and I know the phone has GPS capability, but that it can look at my pattern of driving and make a predictive alert based on the day is a little spooky.

Or is all of this old hat and I’m late to the party?

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19083
Location: PDX

12/2/14 1:20 PM

"is all of this old hat and I’m late to the party?"

Is the software that is gathering said data new to the party/OS version is the question? The device capability has been in place for a long while I am guessing. Is it enabled when we think we shut it off when you have the settings to do it. And does it only look like it is disabled with Big Guv/Bro using the data? Conspiracy crap aside, this would not surprise me.

In my android it gets this done with google and wi-fi services, but you can not have that active. Same with the pop ups I get on FireFox location tracking.
I kill it in some hope I am not getting tracked. ;)

All used mostly for marketing and selling trend for dialing marketing, we hope. ;)


Is there a 'Lightbeam' type app for I*s and Droids is another question? And/or Ghostery apps for the smart phones?

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6890
Location: Maine

12/2/14 1:33 PM

Get over it Pat

It also knows the speed of your serve and the name of your mixed doubles partner.

BTW, how do you like the game?

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Pat Clancy
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 1353
Location: Manchester, CT

12/2/14 2:12 PM

Dan - pickleball

I'm enjoying it very much. It's the first time I've participated in a sport where I can honestly say I'm one of the best players in my area. It helps that the local group is mostly retirees and that as old timers go, I'm one of the younger ones. So my quickness and mobility is better than most of the other players.

On the other hand, my brother and I visited your lovely state to play in the Senior Games pickleball tournament some months ago and got our *sses kicked pretty badly. Who knew that Maine was such a hotbed of pickleballers?

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19083
Location: PDX

12/2/14 2:50 PM

"Who knew that Maine was such a hotbed of pickleballers?"


They probably play through the winter with frozen snowballs and ice spikes attached to their feet.

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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2815
Location: hillbilly heaven

12/2/14 3:35 PM

I wish my phone knew where I was going.Then at least 1 of us would know...

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19083
Location: PDX

12/2/14 3:42 PM

Obviously, who it is telling is the bigger issue. ;)

Your phone is telling on you! ;)

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

12/2/14 4:28 PM

your phone knows

You phone knows where you are all along. It needs to know that so it knows when to switch to the next cell tower etc.

Now with GPS, it knows it to a lot better precision. Wifi helps further.

In the past, all that was kept hidden from the user, and the data largely un-analyzed. But the data had always been collected, and probably stored all along too.

Now they start running some analysis algorithm and it looks like they got some mmeaningful result out of it too. So get ready for very targeted advertisement

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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 3236
Location: Midland, MI

12/2/14 6:32 PM

Anticipation

The latest (or last week's) issue of the Economist had a big article about this very issue - the mix of "man I like it that my devices help me out so much" and "man I am creeped out by how much my devices know about me." The thinking is that we will become more and more accustomed to devices "thinking" for us that we will accept the creepy part and enjoy the benefits.

Me, I'm not really sold on it. For example our new house has "anticipatory thermostats" that raise the set point in order to get the temperature to the set point at the time you program. That means the furnace kicks on at different times in the morning depending on how much the house cooled down overnight. Me, I just want the darn thing to kick on when I program it to kick on. Rather than seeing this "feature" as a benefit, I see it as something I have to work around. That said I understand how the vast majority of people would see this as desirable.

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

12/2/14 7:20 PM

Anticipation


quote:
Me, I just want the darn thing to kick on when I program it to kick on.

But, why do you care what time you want the furnace to kick on? It's what time you want the house to be at x degree that you really want to achieve!

They're making it sound more complicated than it really is. The house doesn't go down to outside temperature. Most of us set a night time temperature and a day time temperature. The differences between the 2 are fixed from day to day!

It only takes a high school kid to put together a program to calculate how many minutes ahead it needs to kick on, based on previous days of similar temperature difference.

Sadly, the current crops of "smart" thermostat are pretty...stooopid!

My thermostat has that "feature" too. But it's NOT working as it should!

I set the 2 temperatures, let it learn the pattern for a few days. Check and found it didn't come on early enough. So at the set time, the room isn't up to the temperature I want. I waited a few more WEEKS. Guess what? It still didn't kick in early enough so I come home to a cold house!

All that watching the "performance" of my "learning" thermostat, I already got the curve in my head. So I advance my timer to "compensate" my stupid "smart thermostat". And I get a nice warm house when I wake up in the monring... OK, I set it too early and wasted energy. So, back it off a bit, I get a nice warm house WHEN I WANT IT.

Suppose for a moment, I AM the designer of the learning software inside that thermostat, I can easily make the change as just I did manually!

Whoever wrote those "smart" program logic inside the thermostat is NOT doing his job! Otherwise, there's really not a whole lot of "anticipation" in that particular application.

That said, google seems to deliver much better end result in their "anticipation/prediction" software. I use google map with traffic information often. Its prediction on how long it takes me to get from point a to point b has been quite close to reality. On the other hand, I also know I almost always beat google if there's a local route that are shorter but without too many traffic lights.

I hope google map doesn't "learn" it from me. ;-)

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greglepore
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1724
Location: SE Pa, USA

12/2/14 7:34 PM

The fancy versions of those anticipatory thermostats read outside temp vs inside temp and adjust the water temp at the boiler accordingly. Can lead to some pretty significant fuel savings.

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Steve B.
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Posts: 769
Location: Long Island, NY

12/2/14 8:03 PM

I use Google Maps to check on traffic conditions for my work commute. Google has about the best traffic reporting I've seen, knowing that they are quietly polling a gazillion phones that have their map app on them to generate those reports.

Not a problem for me.

What I do find annoying is in the process of tracking the routes I take (with or without the map app providing directions) they have generated a typical suggested route based on my most common route taken and not will no longer suggest other potential alternatives, being almost too smart for my own good and assuming I always want the same. And no way to turn it off as far as I can tell.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19083
Location: PDX

12/2/14 8:05 PM

I am surprised google's gps/map services don't steer you past certain retail, clusters of stores etc. ;)

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ErikS
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 8337
Location: Slowing boiling over in the steamy south, Global Warming is real

12/2/14 8:09 PM

Hell, my phone knew my class schedule when I was in college. Given a week or two it learned my patterns.

Now it knows the Y, my work address and home of course.

The phone just looks for patterns where you are using it. We are creatures of habits and it is easy for the iPhone to figure out our patterns even with the GPS off because even if you don't use the Wifi in a building, it knows the signal was there and the cell towers.

I am okay with it as long as my iPhone is not reporting those habits to Apple or .gov. Apple says they don't sell off your info and in fact really torqued the .gov with iOS 8 because the security is to tough. Evidently even Apple can't hack your data anymore.

Cook stated the the don't need to sell your data, they are business of selling you stuff.

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sandiway
Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Posts: 4902
Location: back in Tucson

12/2/14 8:16 PM

I simply turn on the a/c using my smartphone when I'm about to leave the office.
I leave at a different time each week and day. My thermostat has wifi enabling manual remote control

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19083
Location: PDX

12/2/14 8:30 PM

I have all kinds of timers setup in my house. Thermo, two 220 circuits on timers for Water heater and a crawl space circuit with a dehumidifier and circulation fans. I am going to put another out in the CT room on the 4k watt 220 heater soon. ;)

Very analog, really... ;)

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

12/2/14 8:56 PM


quote:
What I do find annoying is in the process of tracking the routes I take (with or without the map app providing directions) they have generated a typical suggested route based on my most common route taken and not will no longer suggest other potential alternatives,

That's interesting!

I didn't noticed that. Or is that a iPhone only thing that doesn't apply to Android?

I have a particular back road I like to take to get to the train station. But if I EVER ask my Android phone to guide me, they always send me via the main road instead. I rarely ask the phone to guide me near home though.

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Steve B.
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Posts: 769
Location: Long Island, NY

12/3/14 7:59 AM

AFAIK, Google tracks all phones in which that they have apps installed. I assume, all as pretty much all the Google apps tell you they use location services. If location services is enabled on a iPhone, then the GPS is in operation. They do this tracking in the background and is how they determine and generate traffic reports as well as travel habits.

I know about habit tracking as I don't need or use Google Maps to go to one of my 2 Italian deli's, yet if I do a search in Maps for either of these business, they come right up on top in the search list, so I know Google is aware I frequent these locations.

As to are they routing me past shopping possibilities ?, that's impossible to determine as pretty much everywhere in the NYC metro area is chock full of national chain targeting centers. The directions routing I get from G-Maps usually routes me on a parkway in the south shore of L.I., which has no major shopping center along the route, so I assume direct routing as well as my habit generated preferences take priority,

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19083
Location: PDX

12/3/14 11:44 AM

"As to are they routing me past shopping possibilities?"

That was mostly tongue in cheek that comment. ;)

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Dave B
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 4511
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

12/3/14 11:48 AM

I don't know about "smartphones" but my Samsung flip-style dumb phone has on/off settings for the GPS function. I have mine set to go on only for 911 calls.

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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 3236
Location: Midland, MI

12/3/14 8:17 PM

Timing


quote:
why do you care what time you want the furnace to kick on?


Cause I don't want it to come on before my alarm and wake me up while heating up my bedroom.

I did a lot of process control programming when I worked for a living and know all about how these things could be programmed, but it's a long way from Laplace transforms to practical process control, and I think that it would be very surprising to find a thermostat company that knew the difference.

Greg hits on a key point - if you really want to do residential temperature control right you combine feed forward (knowing the outside temp helps you determine the heat load) with normal proportional control. There's little value in integral or derivative control loops in home heating. And with forced air gas heating, there's no boiler temp to adjust - you call for heat or you don't.

The real trick for good home heating control is to add thermal mass to the structure so you smooth out the temperature swings of the on-off nature of most home heating systems. Beyond the comprehension or capability of the vast majority of builders or architects, let alone homeowners.

Last edited by KerryIrons on 12/4/14 7:55 PM; edited 1 time in total

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Steve B.
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Posts: 769
Location: Long Island, NY

12/3/14 10:06 PM

"That was mostly tongue in cheek that comment. ;)"

Yup, but this is what it's coming to.

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

12/3/14 10:10 PM


quote:
Cause I don't want it to come on before my alarm and wake me up while heating up my bedroom.


I now have electric heat which makes no sound.

But when I used to live in a house with forced air oil furnace, I love having the heat on AS MY ALARM!

Getting out of bed while the house was cold sucks...

That said, my stupid smart thermostat has two modes, smart or dumb. I could very well have left it in the dumb mode. So far, I really couldn't tell the difference so I left it.

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Steve B.
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Posts: 769
Location: Long Island, NY

12/3/14 10:11 PM

"Cause I don't want it to come on before my alarm and wake me up while heating up my bedroom."

I would think it would be desirable to have the room up to a comfortable
temperature as you are awaking. Thus you're not getting into a freezing cold bathroom and shower, etc....

Sounds like your heating system is noisier then mine (baseboard hot water, so reasonably quiet).

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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 3236
Location: Midland, MI

12/4/14 7:54 PM

Sleeping cold

Actually I like to sleep in a cold room, so having things heating up before I want to get up is not my favorite thing. Our system is actually pretty quiet, but our house is much quieter so the slight extra noise of the furnace fan can wake me up.

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