1/30/15 8:36 PM

"Man, now every ride will be harder!"


It never gets easier, you just get faster...

1/31/15 9:25 AM

dan

You are a harder man than I. I only use the 3 & 12 minute ftp protocol on the ct, which is like going to the dentist. How's those rides after doing all that shoveling ?

1/31/15 9:49 AM

Well I didn't even know there were 3 & 12 minute ftp protocols, I've only encountered 20 and 60 - Smelly gives you your choice, noting that most use 20. I actually enjoy the 20. Most painful thing I've done on a trainer were 5 mile tts we used to do at the LBS - took about 9 minutes, pure torture. I think I'd rather do 20 than 12 - 12 would hurt like hell if you went all out, 20 is tolerable because you can't sustain that much hurt.

I haven't really ridden directly after shoveling. After shoveling Wed and Th am, I rode the test last night as I was feelin' it. Shoveled this am, probably won't ride. If I feel OK tomorrow is Base Tempo White Lake HD, and/or snowshoeing.

2/3/15 7:53 PM

Just rode the 4 man ttt ErgVideo, part of my Gran Fondo training plan. It was scaled back so it wasn't a full-on tt - pulls were 88% ftp, whereas in a real ttt I'd think they'd be a bit above. Not that hard really, but fun and a good workout. Cool the way the Erg simulates the short pulls, recovery, etc. Some of these training plan workouts are around an hour to an hour and a half, which is great as I can do them after work (and not ditch the dogs).

2/4/15 7:38 AM

One of the cool things about the ergvideo is that you can hit the plus or minus keys and increase or decrease the power (it actually just overrides the ftp entered). Say you have an effort at 90%of your ftp that you want to do at 105 for a more "realistic" simulation-you just click the plus key during the effort until the power is equal to 105% of your ftp. Its flexible. I do this with 2x20's-sometimes I want them near 90% sometimes more like 80%.

If you get ambitious you can create your own workout variations from the videos, by using the edit tool you can take segments (unfortunately the minimum is 5 minutes) and scale the segment to the percentage of the ftp you want. For example, I created 4x4's at 110% ftp using segments of the Majorca tempo ride, beginning with a warmup. You can even name these and save them as one of the menu choices.

I know, too much info Dan...

2/4/15 8:12 AM

Thanks Greg, yeah I know you can bump it up by 5% increments, but somehow I haven't been tempted to do that yet.....:) Particularly since my ftp went up quite a bit on the recent test. Don't think I'll get into the more complex editing, at least for awhile...

Remember when ftp was first mentioned in this tread I had to google it to find out what it was.

2/5/15 7:42 PM

Hmmm-I just rode the 4 man, and at the default ride setting my "pulls" were 105% and the recovery was at around high 80's. Freaking hard. Killed me. Oh yeah, its a 4 man tt but for crying out loud you have to take every third pull at least. Brutal.

2/5/15 8:03 PM

turning into the TTF wattage group :)


this from someone who has the wattage output of a hamster....

2/5/15 8:46 PM

I think.

I am now riding at the beginning of my downloaded Gran Fondo training plan. You buy 10 videos, then open the plan and run the videos from the plan. The plan description of the ttt for the session I rode is something like "4 man tt done as tempo ride." So I think this session was a throttled down version, whereas yours is probably the default if you run the video independent of a plan. I think later in the plan I get harder versions of the same rides. I agree that my guy took more than his share of pulls....:).

And I noticed some plan sessions are say 1:15 versions of a video otherwise described as 2:05, for example. Which is good because I can do several of the shorter, easier versions per week, where I couldn't with the full-on versions (which may be the point).

I will say that I did the threshold intervals yesterday, and they were a hell of a lot harder than when I did them a week before with a lower ftp. Average hr +12.

2/6/15 7:51 AM

I scrolled down the training plan sessions (set for 5x week for about 4 months, not that I'm likely to keep to that) and there are at least 4 versions of the ttt, with the sicko "full gas" version coming later in the program. Of course, there are a number of ftp tests before then to make it even worse...

2/8/15 2:34 PM

Hey Dan,

Really been enjoying your training descriptions, keep them coming.

With regard to your old CT, would you mind checking the load generator and telling me what the number is on the side of it? If it is 8001 I might be interested in it as a spare. I currently have three 8001s which all get used regularly (one for me, one for Sally and one for visitors). All are still using the Nintendo system which is kind of ironic since I hang out with Smelly a fair bit and am in many of his videos...seem to recall doing a 4 man TTT for him amongst others.

I have often thought of 'upgrading systems' but just haven't been able to bring myself to do so since the Nintendo is bullet proof and still does the job for my 12-14 hour training weeks. I sure like the new Kickr system but when ever I think in terms of upgrading I have to consider that I need THREE and then a computer and all the other associated crap to make it all work...and you thought you were a luddite???

PS. For FTP testing I really think the 20 minute TT multiplied by .95 is the best gauge.

2/8/15 2:54 PM

Paul, sorry I've already sold the old CT to another forum member.

Yeah that's the ftp test I'm using now - I saw Doc Coggan uses .925 but .95 makes you look stronger...:)

Rode threshold intervals today and Col d' la Bisque (?) yesterday, both easier training plan versions. Next week the hammer comes down with 2x 20 minute intervals at ftp. The free training plans Smelly provides are a great addition.

I'm getting to know the Ride with Rendall boys pretty well - thre are some pretty big dudes in that group!

2/9/15 11:16 AM

Hey Dan,

Probably a good thing you already sold it, the last thing I really need is another spare item hanging around my basement. Technically the reason I have 3 CTs right now is because one of them is a spare so I guess I was really looking for a spare for the spare.

BUT speaking of spares, I was a couple hundred miles away from home in the middle of nowhere last Thanksgiving weekend doing our usual mtbing weekend thing. About 20 minutes into the first ride of the long weekend my seatpost snapped also taking out the saddle. The organizer of the weekend was shocked when I didn't flip out because my whole weekend had just been ruined. Then I explained I merely had to go back to the car and install the spare seatpost and saddle I had with me...needless to say he was impressed with my foresight. I'd been carrying that stuff with me along with other spares for over 10 years (the mtbing thing is an annual event).

Funny story about RwR boys. They were out west for Nationals a few years ago in a group doing a training ride, went past a lone rider who obviously recognized the jerseys. The rider yells: "Hey I've got your videos at home!" after which the guys had a discussion as to whether the spectators who heard this would think they were porn stars as well as bike racers.

Funny thing is, Glen (aka. Rendall) is actually Sally's size (5'-3") although he does weigh a few more pound than she. So he is absolutely tiny compared to some of the others but he is just as fast as any of them in a flat TT and obviously faster when the road tilts upward.

2/9/15 11:34 AM

On the videos there is one guy who is quite small riding with a couple guys that look like German track sprinters...

I am also impressed with your foresight.

2/17/15 8:56 AM

For all of you TT / wattage Walter Mitty's...(me included)
Quoting Adam Myerson:

quote:

---

A solid read, and a reminder of why we race bikes, whatever the level and discipline.

---

2/28/15 7:45 AM

An update on my quixotic mission to get in shape for a difficult ride in April via site sponsor ErgVideo's videos, and Gran Fondo Training Plan (which specifies 5 workouts per week over several months). The workouts are based on your functional threshold power (basically the power you can hold for an hour) so that is retested periodically. The test is a structured warmup followed by 20 minutes as hard as you can go; you take 95% of average power for your ftp.

I rode the videos on a random basis for 7 weeks, and have followed the Plan the last 4 weeks.

I took the ftp test at the beginning, then 7 weeks later when I started the Plan, then again yesterday after 4 weeks on the Plan. At the first test I wasn't in much shape, so that basically generated a number to start with. The second test showed an increase of about 13%, which admittedly was from a pretty low baseline (and I may not have done a great job on the first test). The third test showed another increase of 7%, which I think is a good number as the second test was pretty solid. So overall the tests show an increase of about 20% over about 11 weeks.

An interesting thing as to average heart rate is that for the first two tests I had the same average hr, while for the last test it was 10 beats higher. I don't know the reason for that.

I'll be doing a much longer ride, but I guess the theory is that a higher ftp helps with a long endurance ride because your all day cruising rate is a lower percentage of your capacity, so it takes less out of you. I've read ftp described as a sponge, and a bigger sponge soaks up more.

It remains to be seen how any of this will translate to riding a bike on the road, but one thing of which I am sure is that I would not be able to get myself to work this hard without the CT, videos and Plan. And it all remains fun (which I would not otherwise associate with indoor riding). And the structured plan appears to work. So I can heartily endorse the products of site sponsor Smelly!

Now an easy tempo ride today to White Lake (around Ottawa) and on Sunday, the Hautacam!

Last edited by dan emery on 2/28/15 8:45 AM; edited 1 time in total

2/28/15 8:01 AM

cool. It doesn't hurt to do some z2 endurance stuff as well, but I think you might have time for a couple of those as well outdoors before you go?

2/28/15 8:58 AM

Yeah I've had exactly that thought about mixing in long, endurance rides. The longest ride on the Plan is about 2 1/2 hr I think. Not sure if I can do a 6 hr ride indoors like Paul D, but I can try :) I dunno how the time is best spent, but it's likely not critical as I'm not training for a race or anything.

I'll do some long rides outdoors weather permitting. What I'd really like to do is over and back on the Kanc, as that has similar climbing to Mallorca (5 mi @6%) and also some hairpins. However that can still be snowy in May (as Rick Hardy well knows). So we'll see.

Last edited by dan emery on 2/28/15 10:12 AM; edited 1 time in total

2/28/15 10:00 AM

2.5 hrs or so indoors is more like 3.5 outdoors, simply because of the lack of mircrobreaks and coasting, so if you can stand that indoors a couple of those can't hurt.

3/1/15 1:41 AM

Maybe it's just me, but I really dread doing FTP tests, staring at my wattage and holding on for dear life.

Hiding the power number doesn't work either as I'm too likely to slack off. I wish TrainerRoad or VirtualTraining had their FTP test based on distance covered in 20 minutes, like an hour record. With the wattage hidden and previous best distance/pace as a carrot.

3/1/15 12:09 PM

Yeah, the test does put you in the cave of pain for a bit. I don't know whether it's better to look at the data or not, but I do because it's in front of my face and is a bit of a distraction. After I settle into a pace I look at the cadence and try to maintain that. And I look at the clock way too much...

Rode the Hautacam this am, hardest climb video yet as the ride turned into "a bit of a slug-fest" in Smelly's words. I felt like the punching bag. At least I finished and have tomorrow off!

Greg, thanks for your comments. You know a lot about this stuff and your input is very helpful.

3/1/15 8:15 PM

I'd much rather have the FTP test as a 20-minute climbing segment, against a virtual partner.

3/14/15 2:26 PM

Well my prescribed workout tomorrow is 1.5 hours, described as "very easy, recovery spin." This is the first time "easy" or "recovery" has appeared in the descriptions. Some rides are harder than others, and there are 2 days off per week, but no rides yet I'd call "easy."

Maybe I deserve (need) it because these are the last 3 rides: 4 man ttt, dialed back a bit, but for a freakin' 1:45 - I'm dyin' the last 15 minutes. Then 2x20 minutes @ ftp, so basically 40 minutes @ full time trial gas with 5 minutes rest spin in the middle. Then a day off, then the exact same 2x20 today. So basically 3 close to tt efforts in 4 days. And this is the Gran Fondo Plan, can't imagine one geared to racing!

So easy ride tomorrow, then two more not so bad, then back with my interval buddies Rob and Greg (probably known to Paul D) for 2x8 minutes plus 2x10 plus 1x8, all at 103 - 105% ftp, then a day off and the same again.

Staying On the Plan 2 more weeks through the next ftp test, then I'll try to ride outdoors on the weekend as I have 3 weeks before leaving for Mallorca. I expect to keep doing Erg workouts during the week even in Summer.

I've never done anything structured, but I'm coming to regard Smelly as a bit of a wizard because lots of the rides are hard enough to take you out of your comfort zone but not so bad that you can't finish them. And on the days off you know you need a day off.

The ergometer controls power load so you can't do a workout "hard" or "easy" - you either do it or don't do it. You can ride a higher or lower cadence, that's about it.

3/15/15 3:33 PM

Power outage 40 minutes in. Wonder if there is a way to have the load generator power itself.... ;O

A freshly charged Laptop ought to hold up for a ride....

3/15/15 4:48 PM

Seems lately I have a power outage evrytime I ride my bike.