9/28/14 1:43 PM

She beat a few more people, too. All-in-all, it was a great weekend for her and she's feeling more comfortable about racing again.

I had the chance to give the Mini-V brakes a good workout in the dusty conditions at Gloucester. It was a bit of an adjustment getting used to brakes that can actually stop the bike (on a 'cross course, one is usually only looking to scrub a bit of speed). I skidded the rear slightly a couple of times, until I got used to the increased brake bite. The front felt great and was really easy to modulate. While I still have yet to use them in wet conditions (there was only some dew on grass this morning, it appears that I now have as much brake as I can use. The next step is to get a set for Linda's bike.

9/28/14 1:47 PM

I took my 8.4's off after 1 ride.. They are so much stronger than anything else I've ever used I want something that requires more squeeze to stop. Long live canti's.

9/28/14 3:28 PM

With such glowing report, it's time for me to get some!

Do you have to keep them close to the rim? Or can you be a bit casual about it?

(I have small hands so I don't have the use of full lever travel distance)

9/28/14 6:36 PM

They need to be close to the rim. Instructions say the pads should be 1mm from the rim.

9/28/14 6:56 PM

"Instructions say the pads should be 1mm from the rim"

Doesn't leave 'ANY' room for a trueness anomaly. no less a busted spoke. a 32x wheel with a busted spoke moves 1mm or more, no?

9/28/14 7:09 PM

Grab a pair of Cool Stop Salmon pads for your cantilevers before getting new brakes. I'm running Nashbar branded tekro's that are the best cantilever combo I ever squeezed. Couldn't really ask for any more grab even screaming down off the blue ridge.

9/28/14 7:12 PM

"Cool Stop Salmon pads for your cantilevers"

+1, and the shoes/pads having multi angle adjustment a must IMO. [as I said somewhere already]

9/29/14 5:26 AM

The pads are close to the rims no matter how much slack you have in the levers, so you can set them the way you like. Canti's don't provide much pad-rim clearance for people with small hands, so I don't see any disadvantage to the mini-Vs.

I agree with the suggestion to try Kool Stop Salmon pads. I use them on my road bikes and I had them on the canti's, too. I may yet put them on the mini-Vs, depending on how the stock pads handle wet conditions. They're inexpensive and quick to install, so why not try 'em?

As for Sparky's question about a busted spoke, yes, you'll get a lot more than 1mm deflection with a broken spoke in any wheel. You'd have to loosen ANY brake if you break a spoke, unless you can loosen the opposing spokes enough to true the wheel. That said, I can't remember the last time I broke a spoke in a road or 'cross wheel. If wheels are built properly, spokes don't break.

I do want to say one more thing about canti's vs. mini-Vs. If I was just going to use the bike on cyclocross courses, I'd be fine with the canti's, since when it comes to braking "less is more" in 'cross. However, I intend to do more "gravel grinder" type events where much higher downhill speeds are a reality and the demands on brakes are much higher than in 'cross. For that purpose, the mini-Vs are a much better choice for me. After discovering the potentially disastrous limitations of canti's at the Dirty Forty, even in dry conditions, I'm not going to take that chance again. I also figure that a C-note spent on high-end mini-Vs may save me from spending a few Gs on a disk-equipped bike, at least for a while.

Dfcas, if you want to sell your 8.4s, let me know, as they'll work with Linda's SRAM levers.

Last edited by Brian Nystrom on 9/29/14 10:36 AM; edited 1 time in total

9/29/14 9:49 AM

OK, confused:

"The CX8.4 features 84mm length arms designed to work seemlessly with SRAM and Campagnolo shifters. Not content to just stop better, the CX8.4's also feature an integrated barrel adjuster on the noodle to make those on-the-fly adjustments simple! For newer Shimano levers, you'll want to choose venerable CX9."

I think and ask, do they mean with the new Shimano you need the CX-9. I know they pull more cable but not as much as the MTB. But do SRAM and Campy have different cable pull than the pre-semi-linier pull Shimano road levers??

Side note, I have 6703 shifters on one bike with the 6800 calipers which are the first of the modified cable ratio brakes. I actually like the way they work, a lot of power. But Shimano sez no to the combo, but I tried it anyway and find that bike has about my fav brakes actually.

Maybe a good option [TRP 8.4 minis] to loose the cable pulley setup on the XT Vs on the Tandem I am thinking.

9/29/14 11:00 AM

The numbers I saw were 1.5:1 for Shimano and 2:1 for SRAM and Campy, but perhaps Shimano levers are not all the same. Based on these numbers, using Shimano levers with 8.4s would give you a lower-leverage/higher travel setup that would require more effort at the lever, but have increased pad-rim clearance. Whether they would still be better than canti's is hard to say without trying them.

Here's an article that addresses different Shimano levers:
http://www.bikehugger.com/post/view/trp-cx8.4-cyclocross-linear-pull-brakes

There's one thing about leverage ratios of brake levers that I think is important to understand and may be responsible for the differences in opinions on brakes. The measurement is based on the ratio of the distance from the pivot to the cable end carrier vs. the distance from the pivot to the end of the lever. That's all well and good if you're braking from the drops, but I do most of my braking from the hoods, where I have a bit less leverage.

That said, when my canti's failed to deliver in the Dirty Forty, I was in the drops and squeezing HARD.

There is also a difference in the effective leverage at the calipers, depending on where on the frame/fork the pivot studs are in relation to the brake track. The lower the pivot stud, the higher the brake pads are on the arms and the lower the leverage of the brakes. This also likely accounts for some of the discrepancy of opinions.

BTW, I spoke with the DF race organizers, who were in Gloucester on Saturday. The course this year was 70 miles and 80% dirt roads (56 miles). They also said that it was much hillier than last year's shorter course.

Last edited by Brian Nystrom on 9/29/14 11:11 AM; edited 1 time in total

9/29/14 11:09 AM

Also makes me wonder if I was to upgrade the Roubaix to 11 speed with different cable pull for the brakes how the TRP Spyre caliper will react differently.

Time to get googling I guess..

9/29/14 11:16 AM

...so I'd say some research is warranted.

There's one other advantage of mini-Vs that I think you and the other fat-tire riders will appreciate. When you disengage them, they swing open wide enough to clear a 38mm wide tire, no problem.

9/29/14 11:54 AM

Ok, it seems the 6700 and 6800 have the same cable pull for the brakes. But the 6800 calipers are a different design than 6700, more of a true dual pivot. I never had 6700 Calipers, but have 6600s. But I can say the 6800 brakes feel better than the 7800 I have also. And have used both with 7800 STI and 6700 STIs. As to if I am stopping better, dunno.

TRP sez the Spyres work with all road levers. Considering the different pulls, I imagine it just might feel as different a my 6800 calipers feel over the 7800 ones with the same pull levers.


Although Shimano sez not to do it, maybe they want you to buy both and not just the brakes or STIs alone. ;)

Like to see the actual tech to see the pull ratio on each. Rather than interpreting internet data.

9/29/14 12:47 PM

email me at dfcas at yahoo

9/29/14 12:49 PM

Sparky

I'd like to try a 75mm arm version. I'd ignore what TRP says and use the 8.4 on Shimano. I'd like more pad movement and less mechanical advantage. These brakes are strong.

9/29/14 7:05 PM

I'm coming from a slightly background. I've been using regular V's with a Travel Agent, not canti's.

I have problem balancing rim/pad clearance vs lever travel.

With the regular V's, I can set the pad any distance from the rim. So a little wobble of the wheel doesn't cause rub. But then, the lever hits the bar without the brake pad fully compressed into the rum. Result being not delivering full stopping power. Basically, the lever doesn't pull enough cable!

I can also set the pad really close to the rim, which gives me a better squeeze without bottoming out the lever. But then, I was constantly re-adjusting the brake arm due to rubbing. This is most annoying in the front wheel, which gets taken off and put back on every time I transport it.

Seems I need to do a bit more research to find the right cable pull ratio so it mimics what a typical road brakes will behave, with a decent range of lever travel and pad travel.

9/30/14 5:30 AM

...as the shorter arms provide an effective increase in cable pull.

9/30/14 11:15 AM

Tektro 926 Mini V Brake seems a way to avoid the zoot pricing with same result, no?

9/30/14 12:40 PM

I've got a set of the 926 on one bike, and I thought they worked just fine. One note, they have a shorter arm length (80mm), and I can't fit larger tires underneath the cable (42mm IRC Mythos).

For about as cheap, you can get the Tektro BX3V with 85 mm arms.

http://www.ebikestop.com/tektro_bx3v_bmx_mini_linear_pull_brake_silver-BR7441.php?PARTNER=GOOGPS&gclid=CI2Nw7vLicECFVVsfgodtYEALg

The 146gm weight is off- it's closer to 180-190 once you add in the hardware (bolts, noodle, etc).

9/30/14 1:08 PM

I actually just looked at what I popped on the Sirrus gravel/adventure bike I cobbled recently. Not ridden it yet beyond a test ride as I need a different/wider BB or to shim it on the drive side to dial the chain line.

Anyway, Elaine's MTB resides on the trainer with a slick and I swiped the old Tektros off it for the Sirrus. 87mm from pivot to bolt. 14mm from cable to 42C Conti Speed Rides [actual 37.5mm] Although a wider rim may give a few mm more. Seems obvious a knobby and bigger one to boot would be an issue. That Conti Speed will be the biggest tire I would put on it, or probably fit for that matter.

I did used a cable travel pulley on the front but not the back. With the 6500 STIs in theory the 87mm V should be fine without. I can say I like the feel of the front a lot better. I think I will go ride it again, the short test ride was a few weeks ago. But certainly this is a perfect example to help me get a sense of the feel/pull/power. It never occurred to me to put those on the Tandem without the travel pulley in line. Tandem has XT V with Travel Agents, and especially the rear pads have to sit way close to the rims. Maybe some compression-less housing would improve things now that I think about it.

9/30/14 1:27 PM

An additional point. I just put Nashbar N-9 Microshift made levers on Elaines Madone in favor of the 105-STI. Mainly so I could use an 9 speed XT 32 tooth cassette and rear derailleur for Crater Lake. She has a triple 105 crank, so was not worried about going to 9 speed from 10. In fact the big ring is trimmed out.

Obsevations:

The brake lever cants out and the paddle clears the bars. More travel brake cable/lever being the point. This being the most 'On' topic and main point.

These shifters downshift under load in the most co-operative fashion over any shifter I have felt. Something I almost never find myself doing, but Elaine does frequently. [maybe less so now with 24GI lowest] ;)

They are asymmetrically shaped conducive to a very ERGO feel in the hand. For 102 space bucks on sale, so far a win win. And she only has one bike, so no issue of different shifting types.

Also, you do not swing the brake lever to actuate, you swing the paddle or tap a button. She likes the function a lot better than STIs. The 10 speed units are 139.00 for the pair currently. Almost worth just having them around for that cost.

Don't know about longevity, but she does not ride near as much as I do anyway. I doubt a longevity report will be forth coming unless it is real bad news. ;)

9/30/14 2:44 PM

I tried the 926. It's pretty cheaply made and the return was inconsistent to the point the after most brake uses you end up with 1 pad rubbing.

9/30/14 4:12 PM

April- you might want to try mini V's with the travel agent. I think that might be a good combo to allow good clearance and set the brake levers to close a lot.

9/30/14 8:43 PM

thanks, I will give it a try once I got it

10/5/14 9:40 AM

Just took the Campy Cantis out on my hilly dirt road loop, and I am most pleased. Hurtling down steep, damp washboard, I can bring the bike to a quick standstill in the middle of the hill. Firm finger pressure, but not excessive. Very smooth and controlled, no squeaking, grabbing, shuddering. I wouldn't want it to stop much quicker or I could launch (I could feel myself moving forward as it was). So I think these are plenty of brake for D2R2 or whatever else I ride. Conveniently they are designed to work with ergolevers, which is what I have on the bike.