9/14/14 7:38 PM

So I have pretty much decided that after something like 175,000 miles over 17 seasons it's time to retire the 1998 Litespeed Vortex. I'm looking at around $500 just to keep it on the road (new crankset, new handlebars, maybe a new seatpost) and the hubs have 110,000 miles on them and so are a potential liability for future costs. I figure I might be able to part out the bike and recover $1K or so (haven't looked into this very deeply). The report here of the Merlin frame crack and a buddy's Litespeed Classic separating at the chainstay/dropout made me face the fact that all bikes can be mortal.

So now I'm looking at Ti bikes to replace it, and Lynskey and Moots come to mind. Lynskey is having a pretty good sale right now but all of their road racing bikes have PF BBs. I've read a lot about press fit BBs and none of it has been really positive. Funny thing is that their "road racing" bike (R450 or R350 or Helix) has the same geometry as their "sport" bike (R230). Any thoughts on PF BBs?

Another question is that both the Moots and the Lynskey's have replaceable derailleur hangers. This doesn't make sense to me in a Ti frame. Are they doing this to protect the derailleurs?

Other brands I should be considering? Pros and cons on these two?

9/14/14 7:48 PM

Budget? Frame? or complete?

9/14/14 10:57 PM

I would think that the replaceable derailer hanger is to protect your frame investment more than the derailer, but it might protect both in some instance I suppose.

I just bought a complete 2002 Litespeed Arenberg for about $500, from an 80-yr-old man who sold me a portion of his bike stable, which also included two Pedersens, a Bob Jackson, a Slingshot Road and a Ciocc. Seven bikes in total for 2800.

9/15/14 1:06 AM

For future-proofing, I'd rather wait until road bikes get disc brakes...

Sandiway

9/15/14 5:30 AM

There are multiple technologies that are evolving at the moment, including disk brakes, road tubeless and electronic shifting. Bottom bracket "standards" (or lack thereof) is another issue that's very much in flux. If you can make it through the winter with your current gear, waiting until spring may be a good idea.

Then again, this is prime clearance sale time for many vendors. Decisions, decisions...

9/15/14 5:41 AM

PF bb's are less of a problem in ti frames, and a good dose of Loctite bearing retainer works regardless. It was a good idea that suffered in implementation, sure, but its not fatal.

9/15/14 8:39 AM

How about a spectrum
http://www.spectrum-cycles.com/titanium.php

9/15/14 9:57 AM

Lynskey frames uses imported ti tubes to keep the cost down, so comparing to others that use USA made ti tubes gives Lynskey a cost advantage. Not saying its better or worse, just cheaper.

If I were you I would consider getting a custom made and "upgrading" the bottom bracket to a threaded one.

I have a SEVEN and one reason I bought it was the threaded BB.

9/15/14 10:02 AM

I doubt disc brake will become that mainstream next year. It's only starting to be offered on cyclecross frames. Road frame with disc tab, I doubt you'll see that many next season. Maybe 2-3 years. Do you want to wait that long?

On the other hand, seems all the pieces needing upgrade are independent of the frame anyway. So why not just "keep it on the road" by getting the needed pieces?

Or, if you're planning to keep the bike on the road for only another couple years, maybe pick up a decent condition used crankset instead of a new one?

9/15/14 10:14 AM

http://www.habcycles.com/

9/15/14 10:26 AM

I can only speak for plastic and Specialized. I of course just bought a new disc Roubaix recently.
Unless you ignored all my post/threads one would know this. I am still well in the honeymoon stage as is evident by all my comments on impressions and issues related to et al.

It is a 2014, and the Tarmac models 2014 forward, disc models and non disc readily available to be sold/bought. Both road and not CX bikes. Now was my 2014 available for 25% off because they are not moving well?

I know Trek makes disc CX too, Specialized has for a while, but we are talking road bike. Tarmac=RR Geom, Roubaix geom, think double century GEOM perhaps comparatively. Saw a disc Cannondale road on a club ride recently as well.

I personally like the 102CM and even slightly longer than that wheelbases [in the 60ish size range] for my own use anymore. The 1003mm wheelbase large bikes I am done with pretty much. Other than the ones that are garaged here already.

I doubt road disc bike will not become mainstream, and it has already started it appears.

If you have a generous budget, Carl Strong does Custom Ti. Get some KY on your wallet pocket.
But Ti is going to be like this unless you go a direction like Habanero. A choice not mentioned yet, imported material and build. Two offerings for a road frame, Classic and Team Issue, no disc option unless you look to Habcycles Tour/CX frame.

I had looked into the Silver Series Lynsky offerings.
The info I got when I spoke to them convinced me the Silver Series would be a compromise for bigger riders. They said it to me without prevarication on the phone.

Anyone that gets 15 years out of a bike and recovers 1/3 the cost of a custom frame at the conclusion is doing alright amortizing the cost of
a +$3k frame. Do that simple math.

Thus what I always say applies: "If you can afford and want a Custom Ti frame/bike, get one"

Last edited by Sparky on 9/15/14 10:46 AM; edited 1 time in total

9/15/14 10:29 AM

Strongframes.com

Titanium Custom Blend $3000
Titanium Double Butted $3400

Plus fork. I think Carl gets Ti out the door faster than steel IIRC on our last convo. I thought about having him make a 'Personal Blend' frame for me in the last few months.. But lacked the KY/Wallet side of it.


Colnago C59 Disc frameset is available for mid $5k.
Itey Disc road bikes, it those ini bikes... ;)

9/15/14 12:28 PM

A good sign was when Shimano announced road disc brakes, which it has done. Shimano has the clout to set standards for frame makers.

I've been riding all year using disc brakes on our tandem. Granted, it's heavier but the modulation is so good, and you can late brake so much better, I'm reluctant to ride my rim brake equipped bikes anymore... My next road bike if I ever get one will be disc brake equipped.

Similarly, it's not a good time to buy a power meter. There is a big market realignment going on.

Sandiway

9/15/14 12:39 PM

"good sign was when Shimano announced road disc brakes"

Not sure when that was. but I bought CX-75 Shimano Calipers when I built up the Reuben for Elaine. That was January 2013.

CX denotes Cyclocross I guess. But cable pull same for road and CX lever wise.

A guy I ride with has 8" discs on his Tandem. He says it is the first Tandem out of a dozen over 40 years that he can say brakes with total control and confidence in all situation/conditions.

I almost rode into the back of him on the TCX when my Cantis exhibited the 'Cant' part as compared to his Battleship gray Steel Tandem that says USS Portland on the DT. ;)

John is the only 70 year old I have ridden with that I have to put in a long hard effort to shake off if we are playing like that. Guy is amazing... If I even let off a little he is back on every time. I joke with him that Google maps should link to his brain for the PDX area.


As to Ti, high enough end steel, I finally gave up to the fact that the choices are crazy big coin. Conversely, plastic choices abound for less coin by bounds as well! I got the Plastic.

The Disc Poprad I had was well used. Maybe I should have checked for spoke tension, but the wheels were true. But the new disc wheels on the Roubaix feel great under braking. The Poprad to me flelt wonky, I thought perhaps windup and down at the time. Poprad was 130mm spaced as compared to every other rear disc wheel @ 135mm that I have ridden, including the 2014 Roubaix FWIW.

9/15/14 3:15 PM

The configuration for road disc brake mounts is still in the development stage and is by no means finalized so buying a current disc-ready frame and fork could mean instant obsolesce. Shimano has announced a new "standard" flat mount for road discs and hydraulic discs are probably going to become nearly standard.

http://www.bikerumor.com/2014/07/09/shimano-announces-new-flat-mount-disc-brake-standard-for-road-bikes/

For that matter even rim brake mounts are in flux. Shimano and other makers now have "direct mount" calipers that require mounting posts on the frame and fork and how common these will become is anyone's guess.

So, no matter what you buy, something is going to come along soon and make it old fashion.

9/15/14 3:57 PM

I read SRAM had been doing the road shifter/hydr levers for the upper end Roubaix and Tarmacs. But also was told from the LBS when I got mine they were pulling a lot of brakes at the LBS to replace because SRAM was too slow replacing the recalled units. Or something similar if I understood it correctly.

So cable actuated on the lower end bikes and hydr on the upper seems to make sense. And reflected as such at least with Spesh when I was doing my browsing for data prior to my purchase.

Also the Spesh carbon Hybrids like the Sirrus have flatbars and hydr disc setup. I originally considered converting one of those to drop bars as a result of a deal, but what road levers to use/buy. Thus the cable actuated on the bike I did get. Which has plenty of brake and nice modulation I will say.

Although I will have to revise after the TRP Carbon Spyre calipers go on to replace the BB7s. My foot actually caught on the rear caliper for a long second on SAT. They are supposed to be in today or tomorrow.

9/15/14 7:17 PM

Thanks everyone for the input so far.

Disc brakes and tubeless seem to be just around the corner as they have been for a few years. Not interested in either and I have serious doubts as to whether discs will ever become standard on road bikes. It's a bet I'm willing to take. Tubeless is not a frame consideration and I have little concern (based on 5+ years of "next big thing" status) that I need to worry about that.

Budget is not really an issue - I bought my current Vortex new so you have an idea there.

My ideal frame would have a horizontal top tube and a threaded BB. The former is not apparently made by anyone except custom builders but the latter seems to be a "standard" that has legs. All these other BB "standards" seem to change annually.

I've owned one custom (steel) bike and the dimensions were exactly the same as a stock steel bike and my Vortex. Clearly I am "normal" when it comes to frame sizing and would gain little from a custom (beyond a lighter wallet and delayed gratification). Reading the Spectrum web site it seems you are really buying a Seven that is designed by Spectrum. Not sure what that brings to the party for someone who fits perfectly on stock frames.

I guess I need to start working the phones with Lynskey and Moots and listen to their sales pitches.

9/15/14 8:05 PM

"working the phones with Lynskey"

Again, heed the Silver Series caution there...

Although I don't really see a guy with 6/4 coin/tastes going for that series, when Lynskey still does custom tubes/frames.

So you may not require custom size, but I bet custom tube choices may be a desirable direction for the 6/4 rider in you. ;)

Best luck on your direction and procurement.

9/16/14 5:15 AM

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/road_bikes/lechamp_ti_team_da11_xiii.htm

You're basically buying a Dura Ace group with Ksyrium Elite wheels and a nice Ritchey build kit, that also comes with a free Ti frame! :-)

Worst case, if you don't like the ride, you just move everything to another frame and sell this one for whatever you can get. If nothing else, it would give you a bike to ride while you wait for your frame to be built. And who knows, you make like it!

9/16/14 7:07 PM

quote:

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Dura Ace group with Ksyrium Elite wheels

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9/16/14 7:21 PM

"I read way too many reports (and have some personal experience) about the challenges of owning factory wheels"

Me too

"The evidence on proprietary parts is that people get left hanging far to often. But that's just me."

No it is not just you. I just got some 32 hole hubs and rims yesterday UPS. Already have the spokes and nipples.

I wound up getting the replacement spokes for my Scandium DuraAce Tubeless wheels from AU. After calls to every LBS within 200 miles Shimano told me they had shipped them to. Fixed and got rid of... And tubeless on high pressure/road tires makes zero sense to me also..

I am also trying to decide on wheels for the roubaix.
Carbon rim and maybe some CX-75 hubs. Yada

9/16/14 11:08 PM

quote:

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Two things in which I have distinctly no interest. I'm a hopeless Campy guy and have no use for boutique factory wheels.

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9/17/14 5:33 AM

I personally have no use for Shimano stuff (for multiple reasons) and my road and 'cross bikes are Campy equipped. I use SRAM gear on my MTBs. The point of my post was more of a tease than anything else, though for the Shimano faithful, it's a good deal.

I also agree about proprietary wheels and the only ones I own are a of pair of Mavic CrossMax wheels that came on a mountain bike. Everything else I own is conventionally spoked and most of them are wheels that I built.

9/17/14 7:31 PM

I was all set to buy a half price Lynskey frame today after they called me and answered a number of questions. I went out for a bike ride (good chance to think things through) and when I got back the frame was no longer available (close-out sold out). Back to square one.

9/17/14 8:30 PM

Kerry it seems that what you want is a new copy of your old bike and wheels...Does Litespeed still make the Vortex?