8/5/14 5:50 PM

coming to me from land of der Kaiser. no hurry, not alot of ride-time the last week or so.

8/5/14 6:06 PM

Walter, thanks for igniting me with your Thread and bike. I had some adventure type riding on the back burner, but you got me moving on it. Was going to wait until end of road season peak.

Muddy CX stuff totally off my to do list. But for the record, I kind of find the 'Gravel Grinder' tag a little too hipster/chic. Folks have been adventure riding long before this became the latest thing. I was woods riding my Trek 730 with 45C FireCX 29er tires even before I got here in 2011. ;)

Cheers!

8/10/14 10:01 PM

Took my gravel grinder to Mohonk Mountain House ground yesterday. Had so much fun I really didn't want to leave.

For those not familiar with the property, it's one of the Rockerfellow estate, full of carriage roads. Dirt or gravel, but only at grades suitable for horse drawn carriages. Most are not steep at all. Easy, high speed cruising.

But there're also a large hiking trail network, many of them also open to bikes. That's where I "played" with my gravel grinder: over roots and rocks, water bars, even a loop that's designated as "mountain bike single track" which basically twist and turn and woops up and down the features of the land. It was major FUN!!!

The only thing I was not happy about my bike is the brakes. The regular V's with Travel Agent really doesn't cut it when the trail got steep and loose. It lacks pure stopping power. And to make matter worse, very little modulation!

8/10/14 10:20 PM

"Mohonk Mountain House"

It is beautiful everywhere up there. My Sis worked for the Foundation on the hill up to the MTN House. She lived almost directly across the street. We have spent quite a bit of time in and around and enjoyed it profusely.

I had donated a 10 user NOS [Novell 3.12] to the foundation around 98-9 and they reciprocated by comping Elaine and I a weekend stay at the Inn on the glacier lake side. Sweet hike to high point there, thanks for the memory spark April. I have no doubt you enjoyed it in New Paltz. ;)

8/11/14 1:40 AM

Major fun it is, riding a touring bike or whatever on singletrack trails.

Speed is kept in check by the lack of suspension, often a good thing when other trail users might be encountered, and the challenge of finding traction is, well, part of the fun!

It's a revelation discovering that a road-going bike can take on the trail and even climb the water bars. The traction-challenge part gets interesting with each change in season or in the weather. I used to try to "clean" an entire singletrak mtb loop without putting a foot down even once, then graduated to doing it on the touring bike with 27" wheels. Eventually, with the change in season, the challenge rose to doing all the climbs where the soil was wet and soft, and arriving home with nary a trace of mud on my shoes.
The trail had steep, extended-climbing features, so it was an intense off-season workout.
Taken to the next level would be becoming able to judge the limit of trail conditions where the 700x23 tires can still work, and I've given this a few tries with the hardcore road-training cyclocross crowd. I'll say this, that the road bike's light weight helps maintain the upward momentum that can get you through a bad-traction section, so you can use whatever wind you have left to attack the water bars.

8/11/14 2:24 AM

This sounds like rough stuff touring, which has been around almost as long as the bicycle has been around. When mountain bikes first appeared on the scene, I bought one and rode it on the mountain trails around here for a couple of years, but then I thought back and realized that my touring bike had already taken me over nearly all the trails that I had ridden on the MTB, so I got rid of the MTB and went back to the touring bike. Here's a couple of photos from decades past:

They weren't kidding about the road. I think about 3/4 of all the punctures we ever had on that tandem happened on that day.


More mud grinding than gravel grinding.

8/11/14 6:10 AM

measured at a true 350g/ea.

no ride reports, leaving the faster rubber on for the time being.

8/11/14 6:34 AM

Nice riding at Mohonk as well as the connected Minnewaska State Park to the south west. Both area's were formerly the tourist resort/estates of the Smiley family (not the Rockefellers), who owned the properties up to the 80's. Mohonk - which still has a resort hotel and Minnewaska which had 2 (both burned) have 50+ miles of the carriage roads, all great for gravel grinding. My favorite is Minnewaska as it's a bit cheaper to park, somewhat less crowded and has the beach at Lake Awosting as a destination. Both have terrific views off the cliffs, to the Hudson Valley as well as the Catskills.

Mohonk has the advantage of being more compact as well as allowing bikes on some of the single track, which Minnewaska doesn't permit.

8/11/14 6:41 AM

And they both used to have a couple of rope tows on small ski hills in the winter time. Both gone.

8/11/14 7:25 AM

"My favorite is Minnewaska as it's a bit cheaper to park"

But that's the beauty of the gravel grinder. I parked at New Paltz and rode up to Mohonk!!! Parking is free at the rail trail right outside of New Paltz.

The cycle-cross tires cruise easily on pavement, and the extra low gear equalize the extra weight on the climb up.

After sampling a bunch of the single track + carriage road loops in Mohonk, I exited from Trap Bridge and continued on to Minnewaska. By then I was suitably worked and daylight was fading. So I just exited the park after the waterfall without climbing up to Lake Minnewaska.

Basically, a traverse from Mohonk to Minnewaska and return to New Paltz in a big badass cyclecross loop.

Did I mention the tea and cookie at the Mohonk Mountain house? :o)

I think next week I might do the loop in reverse, climb up to Lake Minnewaska and Milbrook Mountain, traverse to Mohonk for some tea and cookie, and return to New Paltz from Mohonk directly.

Last edited by April on 8/11/14 2:11 PM; edited 1 time in total

8/11/14 9:57 AM

"Smiley family"

Now that you typed that, yeah.. I seem to recall that as well.


We used to top rope with/when the kids [now 23 & 27] were 12-13ish, the older one. Our younger son who was still like 9 we called monkey boy. We had to really watch him because you would turn around and he would be 1/2 up something invariably. Before you made a harness for him and put it on...

8/11/14 2:05 PM

Looks familiar, as when you're fighting for traction in the muck, your drivetrain has to fend for itself for a while!

8/11/14 3:12 PM

A little hot, but I went out anyway.

The Conti Speed rides work well on everything. Probably 70% gravel roads, no shortage south of me. Headed due east on the back roads straight towards the Mt Hood National Forest. No surprise it goes uphill towards Mt Hood.

I was wondering why I was getting so hot and bothered. The terrain along the road sorta hid the grades. I thought I was in low gear because I sucked. Turns out it was because it was up hill 'and' I suck.

A LOT cooler on the return due to speed and air. I was starting to get a little worried I bit off more than I could chew with it hitting 90^ etc. But the return was a lot faster and cooler than the outbound.

8/12/14 9:24 PM

quote:

---

they both used to have a couple of rope tows on small ski hills in the winter time. Both gone

---

8/12/14 9:29 PM

Some pretty pictures @ that link!

8/13/14 11:47 AM

Glad you like it.

The photos were actually from 2012! Looking at them again, I really like the babe deer one!

This time, I saw a young buck, with only a stubby antler, cute as cute can be. But I was moving too fast as I rounded the corner and he came into view (my front tire was inches from his rear quarter!), by the time I stopped, he's gone into the woods.

8/20/14 5:49 AM

...and mounted them last night. They were $35.99 at Biketiresdirect.com. I'm a "gold member" there, so I'm not sure if that price is available to everyone. The MSRP is $47.99. They mounted easily, but everything does on Kinlin 270 rims. The front was a bit lumpy, even though it appeared to be properly seated, but remounting it smoothed it out. They're not as perfect as Conti's, but they're not German tires. ;-)

Inflated to 45 psi - the recommended "competition" pressure on the sidewall - they measure 36mm on the narrow Kinlin rims. Their profile is very rounded, so the edge lugs should stay off of firm surfaces except when cornering hard, which is exactly what I want for the Dirty 40 next weekend.

I weighed the two tires I mounted and they were 372 and 386 grams. I'll weigh the other three when I have a chance.

I'll be taking them out on the road and hopefully a gravel path tonight to scuff them in, and I'll report back tomorrow.

8/21/14 2:42 PM

Friend gave me a late model 2012 Sirrus frame.

Decided to try a build a bit more non CX specific. If it rides well, just in time to sell the TCX for CX season here. No mud for this woosey.

Lower top tube, more slope and a lot more standover. Not for CX, thus shouldering a non issue. Good stand over especially with the 42C speeds on it. BB drop is just over a 1 CM lower than the TCX, wheelbase longer as well about 1/2".

Of course will trim the steerer after riding it. Road crank just to get some pedals on it to see how it fits with me astride. Looking good in the fit dept., most important aspect. Cost will be super low and won't have to care at all polishing it and keeping it nice looking. Although it does not look bad at all. ;)

Going to MTB gear it, 9 speed rear.

Not decided yet on shifters and brakes. May do bar cons. Probably V brakes, although I hate the pulley set up. So maybe V brakes with Tektro V road Levers and bar cons. Could double for some CC touring as well, who knows.

So far cobbled into this.


<img src="http://coupekiss.host-ed.me/images/ttf/Sirrus-M45-Speeds.jpg" width=512>

8/23/14 11:18 AM

I took them out on the road and a gravel rail trail to scuff them a bit. They're smooth on the road, but feel best with a bit more pressure than I was using in the similar-size CycloXKings. In this case, 50 psi felt about right. They were very stable feeling on gravel, so I think they will be ideal for the mixed hard/soft surfaces of a route like the Dirty 40 next weekend.

8/23/14 12:29 PM

The Challenge seems to have a more narrow center and the little knobs closer to the center than the Speed Ride I just got. Love to feel the difference on the same bike and terrain.

Looking forward to your report. I am wondering if the inner edges of the knobs will touch and/or wear and feel a bit less smooth on pavement.

Got a pic of them mounted and aired up? I will host and post if you cannot, just email to me.

8/23/14 2:37 PM

300 TPI Open Tubulars too. I wonder if the high TPI and expense is lost on lower pressure and/or surface.

The Contis are 84 TPI in the 3 plys added together. At the pressures I was running then on that gravel jaunt with a good amount of pavement they rode well enough that the feel of Stiff TCX AL frame was lost. But the stiffness climbing was still there, all good.

From Challenge site:
<img src="http://coupekiss.host-ed.me/images/ttf/Challenge%20Gravels.jpg" width=476>


Panaracer also has an offering. Gravel King, smoother and 28C biggest. Seems like more of a good tour/commuter tire ?

Real rubber and MIJ ?

SIZES BEAD ETRO TPI WEIGHT
700 x 23c Aramid 23-622 126 220g.
700 x 26c Aramid 26-622 126 240g.
700 x 28c Aramid 28-622 126 270g.

<img src="http://www.roadbikereview.com/reviews/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Panaracer-Gravel-King2.jpg" width=476>

8/25/14 5:24 AM

Word has it that the "open tubular" version has durability issues, which is why they came out with the vulcanized version.

We rode them this weekend on some unmaintained dirt roads on Cape Cod, which are really much more suited to MTBs than 'cross bikes. The Gravel Grinders are really sketchy in soft sand, but not much of anything short of a fat bike would be at home there. Surprisingly, they were good on loose rock and rubble. It's definitely a versatile tire.

The edge lugs never seem to touch the road on hard surfaces, but they do provide significant bite on off-camber dirt. If you look at the tires when they're spinning, the profile is sort of like a road tire with "pontoons". You have a 21mm wide, curved, file tread, a gap of ~3mm with no tread, then the edge lugs. I'll try to get some pics of them spinning so you can see what I mean.

Overall, we're pretty impressed with them.

9/4/14 10:23 AM

They worked perfectly during the Dirty Forty rolling easily on the pavement and hard packed dirt, but providing sufficient traction on the looser stuff. I never once wished for a more aggressive tread. At 48/50 psi front/rear, the pavement felt silky smooth and the dirt roads felt like our typical rough pavement, but more muted than with road tires.

We saw a lot of people on road tires fixing flats, including one guy on skinny slicks who flatted four times! I'll bet that they were suffering from serious "tire envy"! ;-)

9/4/14 1:27 PM

quote:

---

The edge lugs never seem to touch the road on hard surfaces, but they do provide significant bite on off-camber dirt.

---

9/4/14 2:48 PM

i have some semi-slick go-fast MTB tires that completely changed the way my MTB handles on smooth pavement and to a lesser extent gravel. phat 2" casing with fine herringbone in the middle and treaded knobs to either side. standing up especially it just handles weird. seated less so, but it's still there.

i'd prefer predictable handling, but they're only 425g and superfast so i live with 'em.