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Dave B
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 4511
Location: Pittsburgh, PA12/18/13 1:18 PM |
quote:
Many people resist using a bicycle for daily transport because they’re reluctant to arrive at work or a social event sweating from the effort of getting there.
It's a lot more then arriving sweaty that keeps people from bike commuting. Rain, ice, snow, cold, fear of automobiles, etc. are just as or more inhibitors.
If sweat was the only problem, scooters and motorcycles would be the dominant mode of transportation.
I wonder how much battery charging "backpedaling" and regenerative braking will really contribute. [/quote]
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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC12/18/13 2:07 PM |
quote:
If sweat was the only problem, scooters and motorcycles would be the dominant mode of transportation.
It is in many countries!
But then, so is bicycles in some countries too. It's more of a cultural thing than anything else.
Having the powered wheel will help in a small way. But I don't think that's the "real" motivation of designing it. It's mostly because the technology is available! (and partly will be helpful for the population already bike commuting)
Personally, I think they're just putting the "sweaty" mentioning there to justify designing something cool without it appearing to be totally useless.
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Jesus Saves
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 1150
Location: South of Heaven12/18/13 3:58 PM |
Nice, but I'd prefer Fabian Cancellara's motorized bicycle.
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Dave B
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 4511
Location: Pittsburgh, PA12/18/13 4:53 PM |
quote:
It is in many countries!
But then, so is bicycles in some countries too
That's a result of short distances, lower income, extremely high fuel taxes and very high automobile purchase prices.
And, even in those places (China and India to name a couple) the move from bikes and scooters to automobiles is happening as fast as economic growth will support.
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ErikS
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 8337
Location: Slowing boiling over in the steamy south, Global Warming is real12/18/13 5:02 PM |
And that is because humans are inherently lazy.
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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC12/18/13 7:35 PM |
Not true
quote:
And, even in those places (China and India to name a couple) the move from bikes and scooters to automobiles is happening as fast as economic growth will support.
There're a lot more country than China and India where people commute by bike!
The Netherland is one of the best known. And its economy is no less "grown" than in the US, where people simply don't bike commute!
Scooters are WAY more common commute for many, many countries! Many of those countries not at all poor!
quote:
And that is because humans are inherently lazy.
People are not inherently lazy. But human are inherently predispose to be efficient (and stay safe).
If the infrastructure favors cars and prohibits bikes, cars will be the choice of transport, short or long distance. Look at strip malls. Do you see anyone WALK from one to the one across the street? No! Why? Because there's no sidewalk to walk on and no pedestrian walk signal to cross the street! So people get into their cars and drive 20 yards to get across a 4 lane highway to the mall across the street!!!
They're not lazy. They're just being pragmatic. To walk to the next mall would risk being killed by other cars. So they join the "killer rank" instead.
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Dave B
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 4511
Location: Pittsburgh, PA12/18/13 8:41 PM |
quote:
The Netherland is one of the best known.
It's "best known" because it's unique. No other country in the industrialized world comes even close to the Netherlands in bicycle usage per capita.
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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC12/18/13 9:59 PM |
quote:
No other country in the industrialized world comes even close to the Netherlands in bicycle usage per capita
But many other country in the industrialized world have a great deal higher bicycle use per capita than the US! And they're no less economically advanced than the US.
Your assertion that bicycle is only for under-developed countries are without base.
Netherland is not "unique", just "best".
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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5101
Location: Nashua, NH12/19/13 6:09 AM |
Interesting, but potentially problematic
Wanna' bet that the first time someone rides one of these on a windy day and crashes because "they got blown over", the company gets sued out of existence? That big red disk in the rear is a bullseye for personal injury lawyers.
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Dave B
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 4511
Location: Pittsburgh, PA12/19/13 7:29 AM |
quote:
But many other country in the industrialized world have a great deal higher bicycle use per capita than the US! And they're no less economically advanced than the US.
Your assertion that bicycle is only for under-developed countries are without base.
Netherland is not "unique", just "best".
That's true and for some of the same reasons I gave above. Fuel and automobile costs are vastly higher than ours.
But, more important, European cities are far, far, older than those in the US, are more compact, more people live in the cities, not miles and miles away in suburbs, distances between towns and cities are shorter, all local villages have close by shops, etc. You cannot equate European and US conditions.
I have spent a modest amount of time in many European cities and I can assure you that, with the partial exception of the Netherlands, bicycles are not a major means of transportation in any of them.
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PLee
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 3713
Location: Brooklyn, NY12/19/13 8:20 AM |
Cities in developed countries where bicycles are an integral part of the transportation infrastructure that I've been to recently include Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Stockholm, and, yes, even London. If you throw in scooters and motorcycles, you pick up Rome, Florence, Barcelona, Paris, Munich, Berlin, Dresden, Singapore.
New York City is headed that way. Speaking of which, I grabbed a Citibike to get across town in the snow a couple of days ago and those things are pretty capable in adverse conditions (after scraping the ice off of the seat).
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Dave B
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 4511
Location: Pittsburgh, PA12/19/13 11:06 AM |
I'm not saying bicycles have no place in the transportation system in cities, here or elsewhere. Just that bicycle trips are a relatively small fraction of all trips even in the most dedicated places like Amsterdam.
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Andy M-S
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3377
Location: Hamden (greater New Haven) CT12/19/13 1:12 PM |
That's no bicycle--
That's a space station!
OK, not a space station, but not a bicycle, either.
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PLee
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 3713
Location: Brooklyn, NY12/19/13 1:28 PM |
In places like Amsterdam and Copenhagen, I suspect the number of people getting around by bike for commuting and shopping and errands equals or exceeds those doing so by car.
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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19083
Location: PDX12/19/13 2:03 PM |
PDX is pretty active, but I doubt per capita it compares to EU cities mentioned.
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sandiway
Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Posts: 4902
Location: back in Tucson12/19/13 3:54 PM |
quote:
bicycle trips are a relatively small fraction of all trips even in the most dedicated places like Amsterdam
In my visits to Amsterdam, I notice that driving is a relatively small fraction of all trips. I'd guess that walking is #1, cycling is #2 or #3 compared to public transportation. And driving would be quite distant on this list. Feel free to quote statistics.
Sandiway
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Dave B
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 4511
Location: Pittsburgh, PA12/19/13 4:19 PM |
OK, for Amsterdam you do make your point. According to Wikipedia:
" In Amsterdam, over 60% of trips are made by bike in the inner city and 38% of trips are made by bike overall in the greater city area."
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sandiway
Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Posts: 4902
Location: back in Tucson12/19/13 4:22 PM |
banning electric bikes
In some cities in China, congestion has reached points that electric bikes are being banned. For example, in Shenzhen (10+ million people), electric bikes are prohibited on major roads to ease car/truck traffic congestion.
http://www.shenzhen-standard.com/2012/02/22/ban-on-electric-bicycles-to-start-soon/
Sandiway
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PLee
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 3713
Location: Brooklyn, NY12/19/13 4:24 PM |
That seems pretty wrong-headed. Every trip that you convert from an bike or scooter to a car just increases congestion. Unless you assume that a bike or scooter user doesn't have the resources for a car.
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sandiway
Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Posts: 4902
Location: back in Tucson12/19/13 5:00 PM |
quote:
That seems pretty wrong-headed.
I totally agree. Fortunately, public transportation there is very good indeed.
And taxi service is plentiful, though the most expensive in mainland China.
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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC12/19/13 5:09 PM |
quote:
That seems pretty wrong-headed.
bit more complicated.
in terms of road space used, a fully jammed bus is the most space efficient. so I think the wrong headed decision is partly motivated by the hope to ease road congestion. indeed, the assumption is all the bike commuters will either walk or take public transport, rather than buy a car and drive around.
people who can afford cars are relative minority. in China, the bike is viewed as a poorman's car. to be banned to make way for buses (which has lane priority over cars/trucks).
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Jesus Saves
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 1150
Location: South of Heaven12/20/13 7:39 AM |
Depends on how you define efficient. First, you have to assume the bus is full, or near capacity. A bus sitting at traffic at a standstill is just spewing out more carbon emission while going nowhere fast. Time spent going nowhere also has a cost - for those who value their time, that is.
There was a report today that the average speed of a NYC Manhattan cross-town bus is 3.4 mph. That's basically a brisk walking speed.
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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC12/20/13 10:03 AM |
quote:
There was a report today that the average speed of a NYC Manhattan cross-town bus is 3.4 mph. That's basically a
brisk walking speed
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Anyone who actually live or work in Manhattan for a while can tell you that!
Crosstown (east-west) bus goes slower than walking! When traffic is "moving", the bus and walker are about the same speed. Basically the speed is limited by the traffic lights. With any sort of traffic, the walker wins. (unless of course, there're so many pedestrian the walking speed is impeded -- a rather common occurance)
Up/down town (north-south) bus actually beats walking in the longer journeys since the traffic lights are synchronized. But around midtown, during holiday period, again walker wins. That's partly due to "helps" from other pedestrian walking all over the road, making for a very slow speed for the bus.
There're known bottlenecks that really slows the "average" bus speed down. But the beauty of bus is, you can just jump off the bus and hoof it!
If you've seen what city bike traffic was like in China back in the days of zero private cars, you'll understand lane space is a serious issue. With millions of people, a bike that takes up 3'x2' space really adds up! (well, I know because I was one of those!)
quote:
First, you have to assume the bus is full, or near capacity.
Have you been to China? One look at the buses during rush hour, you wouldn't even dream about assuming anything else!!!
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Jesus Saves
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 1150
Location: South of Heaven12/20/13 11:00 AM |
I'm a Manhattan native and have traveled all throughout Asia. Quite honestly I have no interest in visiting China (yet) due to smog issues and asthma. I was tempted to go to the Olympics, as I was close by in SE Asia, but said no thanks when I watched the cycling road race. That plus being turned off by a coworker who came back from Shanghai with a persistent cough that never left.
China also makes it a bit of a PITA and $ for Americans to get/require a visa, too.
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