12/13/13 7:35 PM

8 miles from Columbine too!

12/14/13 8:12 AM

...he was able to just walk into the school with a shotgun slung over his shoulder. Really??? Given the proximity to Columbine, it's absolutely inexcusable for this school not to have better security.

12/15/13 1:23 PM

I missed the story, but security around any institution that might be an expected target involves barriers and layers, some of which can be costly to implement and maintain.
Trying to protect society from whatever a psycho csan dream up is basically impossible in practical terms, and as I've mentioned before, even a common shotgun or home-made weapon can easily be as deadly as a machine gun under many circumstances.
What happened, did some hunter get lost and stroll into a schoolhouse carrying his long arm?

12/15/13 4:41 PM

He was stopped by an armed human.

12/16/13 6:06 AM

Apparently he stopped himself.

12/16/13 6:25 AM

...he was about to be cornered by an armed security guard, he decided to kill himself.

This one is truly bizarre, as there doesn't seem to be any indication that he would do something like this. The entire thing seems to revolve around a problem he had with the coach of a debate team , of all things.

Maybe what we should be asking is why our kids seem to think that the only way to deal with conflict and disappointment in their lives is to kill someone.

As for the security at the school, unless I missed something, it appears he just walked in through an unlocked door. That's NOT security!

12/16/13 10:16 AM

quote:

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Maybe what we should be asking is why our kids seem to think that the only way to deal with conflict and disappointment in their lives is to kill someone.

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12/16/13 12:50 PM

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/crime/2013/12/lockdown_drills_what_are_school_shooting_trainings_teaching_kids.html

12/16/13 5:14 PM

@april entertainment has a huge impact too.

Violent games, violent movies and TV and the nightly news feed more violence. Young people have killed thousands of people in simulated combat by the time this type of occurs.

Hell, fighter pilots spend hundreds of hours in a sim to become accustomed and prepared to kill people. Modern Warfare type games on the damn PS3 are no different.

My children were taught at a very young age to respect life and the damage a firearm can inflict by putting food on the table. I feel that sobers the mind and teaches respect for life.

Only full on vegans have the right to attack my stand on this one.

12/16/13 5:19 PM

quote:

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....security around any institution that might be an expected target involves barriers and layers, some of which can be costly to implement and maintain.
Trying to protect society from whatever a psycho can dream up is basically impossible in practical terms.....

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12/16/13 6:23 PM

Our family's and children deserve more protection than money which is only fancy printed paper.

Lock the damn doors and trust no one.

12/16/13 7:59 PM

quote:

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why our kids seem to think that the only way to deal with conflict and disappointment in their lives is to kill someone.

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12/16/13 8:48 PM

quote:

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Our family's and children deserve more protection than money which is only fancy printed paper.

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12/17/13 3:04 AM

Nope, just try those violent behaviors in my part of the world. The bad person will be in a world of hurt here.

Schools are full of innocent children with no means of defense. We are obligated to protect our children because they can't protect themselves.

12/17/13 6:23 AM

In some parts of this country wandering alzheimers patients or kids with bags of skittles are shot. Hard to guard against that.

12/17/13 7:31 AM

So, ErikS, do you feel safer because of the prevalence of gun culture in South Carolina?

http://247wallst.com/special-report/2013/10/04/the-most-dangerous-states-in-america/3/

http://247wallst.com/special-report/2013/04/15/states-with-the-most-gun-violence/2/

12/17/13 7:45 AM

Yeah, guns are the answer...

12/17/13 5:51 PM

I bet more digging would reveal the majority of the gun crimes are gang related which do not equate to the events we are discussing here.

I would even venture to say that it is for the majority black on black crime.

12/17/13 6:12 PM

"In some parts of this country wandering alzheimers patients or kids with bags of skittles are shot. Hard to guard against that."

I see this as a consequence of how armed officers are instructed.
Again, where is any allowance for judgement when they are instructed to specifically shoot to kill anyone that falls into the broad category of an armed threat, so no shot other than a deadly full clip discharge, and I don't think any differentiation between youngster and adult, either.
And it also so often seems to be that when one officer fires, all of them empty their clips at once as well.
Somehow I am thinking this is also somewhat a function of the role that the unions play, I don't see how it cannot be.

When peace officers are trained to act as if they are in a war zone, then I'd compare that to a military coup of sorts, or perhaps martial law, however that is to be defined.

12/18/13 6:42 AM

That is utter BS and it's not the way police are trained at all.

They are taught to fire until the threat is neutralized, whether that takes one shot (rare), multiple shots (common) or many (again, rare). The average number of shots fired in a police shooting of a single suspect is 7, but that is not the number of hits . The "deadly full clip discharge" you elude to is an aberration, not the norm.

12/18/13 11:24 AM

"The "deadly full clip discharge" you elude to is an aberration, not the norm."


Because you typed it? Where is that data on that. I know it seems this way when you hear news reports, but that is not exactly 'data' either?

12/18/13 4:59 PM

LEOs don't carry clips they carry magazines. Technical point.

5.56 ammo comes on stripper clips and are loaded into magazines. I have never seen a clip for any other current ammo or firearm.

Metal detectors are useless when people just come in a side door aren't they. The crazy in the theater even came in unarmed, exited and propped the door then came back in. The crazy on Conn. Just blasted his way in. Metal detectors just ensure law abiding people are unarmed. Criminals just go around them or ignore them.

I saw a shoplifter just go around the detectors in a store to get out with merchandise. He just walked around the detectors.



Yes, sound training is to shoot until the threat is neutralized/no longer a threat.

About the kid with skittles, two idiots met in the night.

12/18/13 5:10 PM

Yeah, one was a kid with skittles, the other was a man with a gun. The Alzheimer's guy, was by definition, an idiot because his brain wasn't working right. Just shoot em all and let God sort em out, I guess.

12/19/13 1:12 AM

Doh, I missed the meaning of who the kid with skittles was, I was thinking more of a recent officer vs. kid shooting in this area.

The original "skittles kid vs. armed man", indeed appears likely to be a classic "2 idiots" scenario in hindsight.
I didn't follow the case at the time though because of the media's obvious attempts at polarizing the public for the usual sensationalization and distraction motives.
Not to say that an armed person might not act abusive toward an unarmed one or that the young man with skittles didn't feel like his perceived rights were being challenged.

I stand corrected, good to hear that what I've so often seen isn't quite what is taught to the various LEO's.
And yes, 15/16-round MAGAZINES, not clips.

It does appear that often, one LEO firing a volley triggers other LEO's to also commence fire, and while that might not be part of formal instruction, there seems to be no legislation/enforcement against it.

12/19/13 6:24 AM

...and it was quite evident in the case of the Boston Marathon bombing. When Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was discovered hiding in a boat, it turns out that he was unarmed. Yet someone lost their nerve and started shooting, which triggered a reaction among the other officers that resulted a large number of shots being fired (I don't have the estimated figure handy). In such a high-tension situation, where there had already been bombings and a high-volume firefight, it's understandable that people would be jumpy and would react with overwhelming force.

Obviously, his happens in less spectacular cases, too. I guess that when you have multiple people who are put in a position where they need to defend their lives, it's inevitable. It's also legally justified, since each officer is under threat and is entitled to stop that threat. The unfortunate outcome of these situations is that the police can appear to be "trigger happy" or to be using excessive force.

The average shot count figure I quoted above includes cases where multiple officers were involved with a single suspect. Perhaps the shot count is lower for cases with only a single officer and I strongly suspect that's the case, but I haven't seen any data on that.