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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19200
Location: PDX11/30/13 1:43 PM |
CC/Debit Card fraud...
Hope the massive bag of douche~ that glommed my debit# gets venereal disease and it rune it's full course.
Also hope it stops at me just contesting the few charges before Our Bank's auto fraud mechanisms kicked in expeditiously and effectively...
I think it may have been the waiter @ the Sushi bar Wed night. He disappeared with the card for longer than I thought he shoulda, and the only one that had that card out of my site... Hope his junk falls off if it was him ;)
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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC11/30/13 2:56 PM |
Jeez, you've been on borrowed time for so long and didn't realize it...
Just about everyone I know have had their CC compromised once, some more than once!
Even my Mom, who doesn't shop online and rarely put anything on CC, got zapped once.
Like falling off a bike, it's not a matter of whether, just a matter of when, and how often!!!
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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19200
Location: PDX11/30/13 3:05 PM |
"Like falling off a bike, it's not a matter of whether, just a matter of when, and how often!!!"
I guess that's right.
I am the guy who cuts all the name and address info off junk mail before it hits the re-cycle bin. Those little pieces with that info go in the burn stuff. I wish I had someone to bill for my management time for this activity.
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Nick Payne
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 2635
Location: Canberra, Australia11/30/13 3:08 PM |
Yeah, when using Internet banking a couple of months back, I noticed a few strange transactions on my CC that I didn't remember. When I put the business names into Google, they all came back as gay porn or gay dating sites...
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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3307
Location: Springfield11/30/13 3:11 PM |
I can't believe how hard it seems to be to track down. If it's the waiter for instance, time stamp, proximity, etc it "shouldn't be that hard."
Maybe WE should start asking for ID too!
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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC11/30/13 3:38 PM |
quote:
I am the guy who cuts all the name and address info off junk mail before it hits the re-cycle bin. Those little pieces with that info go in the burn stuff. I wish I had someone to bill for my management time for this activity.
I don't bother.
I got my first CC "incidence" way, way back in the 90's, before the online business boom. Also working IN online business for a short while, I know just how rediculously easy to obtain CC card number and make a small fortune. I'm talking about legitimate business here.
So, without going back to the cave, or at least cash, there's not a whole lot we individuals can do to "prevent" such fraud. The best we can do is actually watch the statement like a hawk and report any activity you don't recognise. Basically, check the latch on the gate only AFTER a few of your horse got out of the barn to keep the rest of the horses in.
By all means thred your bank and credit card statement. (though these days most of them only have partial number on it) I just don't see the point of putting major effort in destroying papers.
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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19200
Location: PDX11/30/13 4:14 PM |
Since getting anew mortgage here upon getting another house, the spam mail is cray heavy! Last one before that was 2006 and had subsided by 2011 it seemed like. Maybe the State change helped until we got the house here...
So if we decided to get one CC so we do not have to to fight for money that should not have been taken immediately from the bank acct...
Best choice would be, what? American Express, or just a bank CC from our same bank?
Or is this just the obvious pick of no fees, lowest interest etc. Although with no revolving balance does interest rate matter. We have been so anti credit use for almost a decade. And where very glad we had so little debt when 2008 manifested...
But I hate to get a CC on principal really.
Home depot is about the only one, and we never pay them any interest. But getting your house settled in the first few years seems to trend toward more spending when you take the steal and buy approach we always do. We are not here 2 years yet. Although having typed that made me smile thinking of how long I was saying 'soon to flee kerfuffle' and got to put Portland, OR instead. ;)
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Dave B
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 4511
Location: Pittsburgh, PA11/30/13 4:51 PM |
quote:
Best choice would be, what? American Express, or just a bank CC from our same bank?
Businesses HATE American Express as their commission charges are far higher than almost any other card. Also, why would you pay an annual fee for something that has no cost elsewhere. I'd go with you local bank's card, particularly if it pays a cash-back premium.
We have had our Visa card compromised three times, once because someone hacked into Nashbar's data base and once because a waiter (is there a pattern here?) "forgot" to return it to us and I didn't notice until the next morning.
We found out the first two times when the card company called to ask about some suspicious charges and killed that card immediately. Neither we nor the card company lost any money either of the times.
We called the card company about the card the waiter kept and deactivated it instantly. Again there were no spurious charges to us.
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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6935
Location: Maine11/30/13 5:02 PM |
Could have been worse
I know a guy who was called by the card company to ask if he was simultaneously at Hooters in Reno and buying an air ticket in London to India. He said the London scenario was totally implausible.
A credit card has more protection than debit, no? Plus they give you a free loan every month.
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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC11/30/13 5:43 PM |
I've always believe the CC company willingly let those fraud goes unchecked. Take for example:
quote:
buying an air ticket in London to India.
They could have let the ticket purchase goes through and have the police waiting at the airport when the named passenger show up...
But I guess from CC company's point of view, it's cheaper to just credit the card holder's charge than to trouble with catching the fraudster
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ErikS
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 8337
Location: Slowing boiling over in the steamy south, Global Warming is real11/30/13 6:36 PM |
My bank has been very GOOD and the Visa fraud computers are smart.
I had a card number stolen twice last year because the local O club coffee shop can't keep things secure. Well, Visa called both times because I had charges in Cali at a Walmart or the likes. Visa spotted the bogus location and called me immediately.
3 years ago my son picked up a new iPhone from an apple store in NOLA and they called while we were standing in the store. We don't live or shop there so the Visa Computers flagged the purchase.
If you have a decent bank they will watch your cards pretty good.
That being said I have a card I use solely for online purchases.
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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 3255
Location: Midland, MI11/30/13 8:06 PM |
Due diligence
CC companies could be a lot more diligent about catching fraudsters but instead they just treat it as a cost of doing business that is shared by all their customers.
I had an AT&T credit card that I only used to recharge an AT&T phone card. And yet "somebody" got the number and started using it. IOW an AT&T employee got the number and started using it. They just canceled the card but did not pursue the issue further.
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mag7
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 888
Location: Lake James, NC11/30/13 9:48 PM |
What ticks me off is the extraordinary level of protection the crook is given by the CC company.
I was pretty sure the deadbeat boyfriend my daughter was dating was the crook but wanted to try and prove it first.
in the old days, the e-merchant could give a location based on IP address at the time of order (which I know is not reliable) but the ship to address, which is typically a drop ship and not the same as billing, can be very telling.
But nooooo, "his/her privacy is protected" says the modern day merchant as does the bank anti-fraud dept.
I'm with Sparky, except I would make the guy watch time lapse video of other's junk falling off similar to Alex sitting in the Clockwork Orange cinema chair with eyelids pinned open...just so he could have a few months to foresee his fate.
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Dave B
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 4511
Location: Pittsburgh, PA12/1/13 8:36 AM |
quote:
IOW an AT&T employee got the number and started using it. They just canceled the card but did not pursue the issue further...
Maybe, maybe not. If it was an employee who committed the fraud, they may very well have investigated. You do read in the paper of people being caught using stolen CC numbers and being prosecuted.
And Dan's comment that credit cards offer more protection than debt cards is right. You can contest a fraudulent charge on a credit card and, as noted, most of the issuing companies are pretty good at spotting fraud as it occurs. With a debt card, the money is taken from your account in minutes and good luck getting it back if the charge is not yours.
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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC12/1/13 10:24 AM |
quote:
3 years ago my son picked up a new iPhone from an apple store in NOLA and they called while we were standing in the store. We don't live or shop there so the Visa Computers flagged the purchase.
It worked only because he has cell phone on file as the contact number, and he's in an area with cell coverage.
Those are just lucky technological advances the CC company benefited from. They do the absolute minimum for their customers they can get away with!
Example 1
:
Last week, I was blocked from using my card in a ski resort!
Hello!!! It's winter in New York! Where the hell did their write their fraud detection program at, South Carolina???
Being a ski resort, it is outside of any village and town, there's no cell phone coverage! Good thing I brought an extremely old-fashioned item with me: A CHECK BOOK!!!
(
this is within 30 mile of my home, so they can't use the excuse of my never been in the area
)
Example 2
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You bought a ticket from Atlanta to Soeul, South Korea to attend a conference. No flag on your ticket purchase. You even booked a hotel there, in advance. No flag on that either.
But when you need to check in at the hotel, jetlag and tired, your card was denied! You're in a forign country you don't speak the language and you're suppose to call collect to their customer service number???
Never mind you've called them in advance to specifically tell them you're going to South Korea on such and such date!!!
(I can guess why this happens,
repeatedly
. Hence my assertion the CC company did only the ABSOLUTE MINIMUN to "protect" us!)
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Jesus Saves
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 1150
Location: South of Heaven12/1/13 10:58 AM |
credit card benefits
I haven't had the rash of bad luck as April. Also, waiter that takes a long time to return your card is definitely a red flag.
Dan is correct about credit card protection. The most you can be on the hook for is $50, if I remember correctly, for fraudulent activity. You do have to make a concerted effort if you learn of such/can't turn a blind eye, but the law really works in your favor. Even more so if you are a disciplined spender that does not incur much consumer debt.
Much more so than debit cards which I never use. Unless the Uniform Commercial Code laws have changed, you are not offered nearly the same protection as using a credit card.
I find credit card usage much more convenient than carrying cash. With ATM fees exceeding $3 per transaction, that's a real turnoff. I'm no germiphobe either, but handling cash and coins that have been handled god knows how and passing through strangers hands is another turn off.
In the case of payments, I definitely prefer plastic over paper. I also like earning cash back on credit card purchases, too.
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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC12/1/13 11:29 AM |
Doesn't debit card requires a pin? How does anyone else use it?
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Jesus Saves
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 1150
Location: South of Heaven12/1/13 11:56 AM |
legal protection consideration
Debit card use a pin, correct. There are hacked ATMs that have card readers that capture the pin. Putting aside the technical protection aspects, there is more legal protection offered with credit cards than debit cards. In the case of the hacked ATM, you can be out of luck 50, $500 or more including a completely drained banked account, while a hacked credit card you will only be on the hook for $50 at most.
A closer look, I think debit cards have been given more protection than in the past. (Wasn't there some legislative pressure & action to do so by Congress by the likes of Senator Schumer and other congress people, IIRC).
http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0213-lost-or-stolen-credit-atm-and-debit-cards
Debit cards likely do not give as much $ protection as credit cards, I bet due to a strong bank lobby. Debit cards are not nearly as profitable as credit cards for banks.
However, I recently read the average ATM transaction costs banks $0.25, so they are still making a handsome profit charging $3/per retail for debit card use.
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Alenhoff
Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 240
Location: Detroit, MI12/1/13 12:50 PM |
quote:
Businesses HATE American Express as their commission charges are far higher than almost any other card. Also, why would you pay an annual fee for something that has no cost elsewhere.
Three excellent reasons:
1) A 3 percent rebate on gas purchases;
2) A 6 percent rebate on groceries;
3) Quick and easy refunds for online purchases in which goods aren't delivered as described. (And once AMEX contacts the seller, the seller generally corrects any problems. All my Paypal payments are made on my AMEX.)
That said, I know the look my LBS gives when I pull out my American Express card. I generally use Visa or MC when buying goods at small merchants to spare them the high merchant charges.
Alan
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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC12/1/13 12:59 PM |
quote:
3) Quick and easy refunds for online purchases in which goods aren't delivered as described. (And once AMEX contacts the seller, the seller generally corrects any problems. All my Paypal payments are made on my AMEX.)
That's not uniquely an AE thing. In fact, I have just as good service from MASTER card.
And plenty of VISA and/or Master card have rewards just like AE.
(I use AE because I get it for no fee. But if I have to pay a fee, I would drop it instantly)
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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC12/1/13 1:03 PM |
quote:
There are hacked ATMs that have card readers that capture the pin. In the case of the hacked ATM, you can be out of luck 50, $500 or more including a completely drained banked account
Yet we rarely heard of any ATM card victims. I certainly don't know a single one personally, while nearly everyone I know had been victimized by credit card fraud at least once.
So, either such hacked ATM are next to non-existant. Or the banks do a much better job of protecting their ATM users than they of credit card customers!
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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19200
Location: PDX12/1/13 1:07 PM |
"Yet we rarely heard of any ATM card victims."
A camera in your face when in front of it may have something to do with it?? As far as fraud at the machine anyway...
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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC12/1/13 1:16 PM |
You can use an ATM card on any check-out counter. No camera there.
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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19200
Location: PDX12/1/13 1:29 PM |
As far as fraud at the machine anyway...
I still fear the point of sale where the culprit with the cell phone camera and your card get to be alone the most.
The gas pump I hand it to them to scan and take it back not leaving my site. NJ and OR you do not pump your own gas. Handing it through a drive up or as I said a server walking away with it seem the obvious [to me] potential for a grab.
And of course the stolen data base. We sawp out our card for shits and giggle usually each 6 months to wash them out of data bases et al with a totally new number on the debit card.
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