11/10/13 7:47 PM

Met a friend for some dirt diddling,

He asked me to bring the CX bike. He fits my bikes fair with a bit of a seat raise.

So his FS 26er, the Fisher 29er I just got, and the Giant TCX. I got to enjoy watching him do an endo on the 26er instead of Vida Versa. ;)

So 1-1/2 on the 29er and 26er we went and got the TCX out of the car. So now the 29er and the TCX with Schwalbe Ralphs 35C.

He took the TCX and me the 29er and then we switched for the ride back to the car. There is no question I was very much faster on the TCX. Flat mostly with root and rutts with mosh pits you edged around.

Makes me wonder if I should stick with the CX for such flatish fast riding and the 26er and not have a 29er.

Short Honeymoon that... ;)

11/10/13 10:08 PM

If you don't need the front suspension and beefier wheels/tires, you'll be faster without them.

11/11/13 6:47 AM

I'd much rather ride my CX bike than my full suspension 26er, as it's much lighter (10pounds), more responsive and actually more maneuverable. However, there are limits to where I can ride it, due to the tire size (37mm) and lack of suspension. That's why I decided to get a hardtail 29er. It's only 2-3 pounds heavier than the 'cross bike, but I'll be able to use it on trails that the 'cross bike can't handle due to rocks and roots.

The bottom line is that we all need "one of each", right? ;-)

11/11/13 1:30 PM

Some google-ing seems to net info on 'Monster CX'. Along what my thoughts are here.

Of course clearance is an issue on a CX to go bigger on the tires. The Trek-in-Stein which was my only off road bike for a few years fit 45C with some room.

Some fiddling in the garage earlier shows the TCX fits the front wheel off the 29er with some room. That is a 2.1 29er WTB, which is more like a 1.9. Just have to put the air in after clearing even the un-stradled Cantis. A 45C would fit up front with a lot of room.

The rear stays at the bridge above the Canti fits the 2.1 as well. But the Chains stays not even with a prescription. The Conti MK 2.2 which looks more like a 1.8 being even smaller than the 2.1 WTB is still too big for the chain stays actually hitting before being aired up.

So today's experiment will be a TCX ride with the 35 Ralph rear and the MK 2.2 [1.8 more realistically] up front.

Wondering of a 40 would fit on the back. The Calipers seem to suggest 44mm would be the max space about where the top edges of a 40-5mm tire would rest. So being most tires are smaller than advertised, the right 40 should still have a little mud clearance.

Are Clydesdale CX riders running bigger than 35mm tires I wonder, Time to Google a little more. Most serious racing CX use 30s, 32s max, yes?

11/11/13 3:33 PM

quote:

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However, there are limits to where I can ride it, due to the tire size (37mm) and lack of suspension

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11/11/13 8:01 PM

Took the TCX for some laps of a local 10+ acre dog park field up the street.

2.2 Conti MK [mountain king] front, left the 35mm Ralph on the back. The MK is quite the soft compound I will say. I want to try the WTB off the 29e which is a harder compound another day.

I hit a left at speed riding the 4-5" bald spot/path and slide a touch up the line. Was not sure if it was the front or the back it happened so fast. So auto pilot body english compensated.

Looked at the tracks next time around to see it was the front. ;0 It hooked back up as it hit the right edge of the little 5" doggy path. ;O I think my heart skipped a beat...

11/11/13 9:52 PM

Good save there, oh, and be sure to use fenders when riding in a dog park(?).

11/11/13 10:21 PM

"when riding in a dog park"

Not really that kind of park. Not sure how I would describe it. I think originally it was supposed to get 3-4 ball fields and all that fell apart. It is not citified in the least bit. ;)

So the local Cable/Phone company [out here at the fringes] whom owns the land made it a dog park.

More like a 10 acre field with a small 20 car gravel parking lot. The 4-5" path that is dirt in just worn from dogs. Half the activity is folks training games dog out in the middle. The other 1/2 being the 4-5" path walkers. Not many oysters to avoid as they go off one side or the other of the little path pretty much.

It looks smooth in the SAT picture, it is washboard in a lot of sections and actually touch to do laps on.
You can't stay seated unless crawling...

11/12/13 5:50 AM

I picked up a pair of 45mm Vee Rubber 29er tires at the 'cross race in Providence and tried them on the 'cross bike. The front is fine, but the edge knobs just brush the chainstays. Add a little mud and they'd abrade through them in a heartbeat! Oh well, at least they were only $20 each and they'll fit the 29er. I'm hoping that the "gravel bike" craze will result in a decent crop of tires in the 40mm range.

April, while you're right that lighter tires will make my MTB more responsive, it will still weigh ~8 pounds more than my 'cross bike, which is a huge difference. Between that and the loss of pedaling efficiency from the suspension - even when it's locked out - it will never be anywhere near as responsive. It's like a 4wd pickup compared to a rally car.

11/12/13 8:41 AM

You must have really light cross bike or (AND?) a real heavy mtn bike!

My cross bike weight a tad under 20 (18-19 depending on the tire and padel I have on it).

Even my hard tail from 20 years ago, weights 24 with the lighter tires and a road SPD padel (although normally it has a heavy downhill padel which pushes it to 25lb). At best, it's 5 lb difference, at worst, maybe 6. And that's between a fairly up-to-date crosser and a really old hardtail!

My full suspension bike which is newer and kind of semi-tricked-out (for its time), is also under 25 lb! And that's with regular 2+" monster off-road tires and downhill padel!

[EDIT]
I do noticed weight of the latest full suspension bike doesn't seem to go down as weight of road bike does. In fact, mid-range dualie of today are heavier than my 10 year old SC Superlight! :-( So Brian, perhaps it's not all that surprising your mtn bike is 8lb heavier than your crosser after all...

11/12/13 9:02 AM

April, I think your pretty off base here.
I have a 2009 Full suspension 29'r that was pretty high end 4 years ago, and it tips the scales at 30.5 lbs, while I don't have a CX bike, I suspect that any decent CX bike is around 20, so 8lbs easy, even 10-11 lbs wouldn't be off base.

11/12/13 10:29 AM

henoch, BBrian was talking about a 26" dualie, not a 29", which is a good bit hheavier. A ddecent 26" dualie should get anywhere near 30llb!

11/12/13 11:14 AM

In technical terrain, which is what we have here in West Virginia, I'll take the 29 mtb every time.The slacker head angle, longer front center, and Bottom bracket drop combine to make it much more endo resistant than any cross bike I've ever owned. if its not mtb terrain, then a cross bike is probably OK. If its smooth cross bike terrain, why not a road bike.?

11/12/13 11:28 AM

The 29er Gary I jut got is 26.5 with pedals and 2.1 tires that look like 1.8-9. 4 lb shock which is light for s 29er fork I think. Maybe loose a lb with smaller tires and lighter pedals ?

The old Steel 26er Stump Jumper is 26 lb with 1 lb pedals and 1.95 tires that are bigger than the 2.1s on the Gary. It has zoot wheels for the say, and a SID which is as light a fork as there is.

TCX with 35c Ralphs and 1 lb pedals [I like my 747s] is 20 lbs. 5 lbs is getting there, but the Trek-in-stein with the 45C was 26 lb and compared to the TCX was sluggish when you tried to keep it flying. I could have lived with it frankly, but someone offered me 500.00 for it, and I let it go because I had the Chili.con.kermit. Liked the trek better than the Chili was 18 ls with 35c CX tires.

They are all fun, although the Chili had the most uneventful feel of pretty much any bike I've ever ridden, TCX I like a lot for all use. New fav, and cheap cheap cheap. Thus it has caused me to stop making any Aluminum bike claims one way or the other.

Last edited by Sparky on 11/13/13 9:47 AM; edited 1 time in total

11/12/13 2:20 PM

" If its smooth cross bike terrain, why not a road bike.?"

For starters, you can't put 28mm cross tires on a road frame!!!

Then, there's the crisp handling from the steep head angle, short chainstay etc.

Granted, pro's RACE on cobble stone. But is that fun?

Brian got it right. You want to feel the trail, not beat up by it! That balance point sometimes lies on a full suspension, other times on a cross, or anything in between.

(I had at one time dreamt of (or fantasized) a single speed 29'er hard tail. Light, responsive, yet can soak up a ton of roughness with the suspension and wide tire foot print. A lean and mean machine! But with my fitness going only in one direction -- down, it's a dream that's fading into a wish/fantasy that has no chance of becoming reality)

Last edited by April on 11/12/13 3:19 PM; edited 1 time in total

11/12/13 2:33 PM

My 29 MTB is an old 2002 Fisher hardtail with the low BB, a Carbon riigid fork, and basic parts. I assume its low 20's, as the frame and fork combined weigh 5 pounds. It will fit tires as small as 17mm.

11/12/13 2:57 PM

When I built up the MotoPecan Fantom 29er, I had no 29er tires and put on some file center CX 35c I had laying about. It was close to too tall with the 35c so obviously too large. Putting even 1.95s would have made me a soprano, and not the tTony kind. But for a $90.00 for a new take apart bikesdirect frame I got I figured what the heck.

It was brutally stiff, besting the Chili Con Kermit fro stiffness, and it was front suspended. Forget what nice 10 year old middle of the road susp fork it was. Nothing compared to the Reba Super Light on the Gary 29er in either weight nor actually having dampening etc.

Point[s]?

-The Fantom perpetuated the AL stereo type which is not always true.

-Rather use my Strong with 28C GP4 All seasons for single track. I've done that, like riding on ice almost ;)

Am I mistaking low rotational mass and good acceleration as being favorable off road? Non race situation...


"But with my fitness going only in one direction -- down, it's a dream that's fading into a wish/fantasy that has no chance of becoming reality)"

Denial works here... ;)

11/13/13 6:47 AM

...which was an upper-end bike in it's day. However, it's still 29.5 pounds, including a water bottle cage, pump mount and computer mount. My Pinarello CX Carbon 'cross bike is 19.7 pounds with a computer mount and water bottle mount (Vincero), so we're looking at nearly 10 pounds difference.

I'll be picking up my new Motobecane Fly XX 29er Ti at the UPS store today and will post the weight tomorrow. It should be in the neighborhood of 23 pounds.

EDIT: In stock form without reflectors, spoke protector or pedals, it weighed 22.17 pounds (19" frame). Which is slightly less than the claimed weight for a 15.5" frame. Installing a pair of Eggbeater pedals, a slightly heavier saddle and converting it from trigger shifters to twist shifter added exactly 1 pound.

Keep in mind April that I ride a much larger frame than you do, which makes a considerable difference, particularly with MTBs. Linda's bikes are probably more your size. Her Titus f.s. MTB is around 26 pounds and her Ibis 'cross bike is well under 20, though I don't recall the actual weight (~17-18).

Speaking of Linda, she's pretty well healed now and we'll probably do some easy MTB riding this weekend, her first foray on the bike since her accident.

Last edited by Brian Nystrom on 11/14/13 6:16 AM; edited 1 time in total

11/13/13 9:51 AM

"Keep in mind that I ride a much larger frame "

Probably should note that I also ride bigger bikes. 60CM basically.


Glad to hear Linda has seen progressive recovery. ;)

11/14/13 2:44 PM

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Speaking of Linda, she's pretty well healed now and we'll probably do some easy MTB riding this weekend, her first foray on the bike since her accident.

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11/14/13 5:27 PM

How is your clav progressing April ?

11/14/13 6:21 PM

I have a Giant TCX cross bike too--single ring, 10 speed rear--nice cross bike--gets the job done.

My 29er hardtail is a Fantom which has been completely upgraded parts wise. Its stiff, goes straight, and quite capable of winning xc mtb races. BUT my race wheels for the 29er are 24 hole 2x bladed spokes 85mm Token carbon tubular rims (hubs are Token too with Tiramic bearings) shod with Vittoria cross tires. Wicked wicked fast BTW my fork is air sprung, oil damped and locks out with a remote bar control when I don't want/need the front suspension.

Again BUT the two bikes have two different purposes for the same reason my TT bike is not my road bike and vice versa

11/15/13 6:40 AM

We're going to be doing some very easy dirt roads and trails, so a fall is really unlikely. Her f.s. MTB is smoother riding than a road bike is on our rough local roads, so it should actually be easier on her shoulder. Also, she needs to start getting her off-road mojo back.

11/15/13 8:12 AM

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start getting her off-road mojo back.

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11/15/13 6:52 PM

It's about getting comfortable with your abilities and pushing your limits, knowing that you could fall, buy not letting that deter you from enjoying yourself. She won't be pushing anything for a while, but just being on the bike and getting comfortable riding in conditions where you don't have complete control is enough for now.