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FROOME - Spolier Content
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Wheels
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 1160
Location: Needham, MA

7/17/13 9:36 AM

FROOME - Spolier Content

If this guy isn't on something, I'll be completely shocked. He rode away with the time trial today, besting the second place rider (Contador) by 9 sec. and even the best TT in tour by much more than that. Sure it was a "hilly" TT, but still.

The way he has complete decimated the competition on the flats and hills, with the help of his unbelievably fast team, one has to seriously wonder. Serious kudos if this is pure talent, but my gut says there is some unfair play here.

Wheels

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Dave B
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 4511
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

7/17/13 10:31 AM

When you have real evidence, not just unsubstantiated conjecture, get back to us.

Am I SURE he's clean, no, but the current testing procedures are quite thorough and the consequences of being caught are so severe they have to be criminally stupid or possessed of some magic, undetectable ped to dope.

As the GC leader, Froome is tested EVERY day. They can't be more thorough than that.

He beat a presumably no-longer doped Contador by only 9 seconds.

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Wheels
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 1160
Location: Needham, MA

7/17/13 10:51 AM

Huh?


quote:
When you have real evidence, not just unsubstantiated conjecture, get back to us.


Did I do something to offend you?

I can remember pages and pages of forum posts of folks saying the LA was on something, even though no evidence existed right then. Turns out, there was evidence, but it took awhile to surface.


quote:

As the GC leader, Froome is tested EVERY day. They can't be more thorough than that.


So was LA and every other GC leader doper. They got away with until they didn't. For LA, it was 8 years.


My point is I find the similarities between Froome, and what other "dominant" racers before him achieved, striking. We then found out that the "other" dominant racers were playing unfairly.

I hope that he is "pure". It would be a welcome relief.

Wheels

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henoch
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 1690

7/17/13 11:04 AM

I am firmly in wheels camp on this one.
In fact he is perhaps even more dominant then Lance was.....
Testing every day, hmm where have I heard that one?

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

7/17/13 11:17 AM


quote:
the current testing procedures are quite thorough and the consequences of being caught are so severe they have to be criminally stupid or possessed of some magic, undetectable ped to dope.

Rather, I think it's criminally stupid NOT to dope, considering how ineffective the testing had been so far.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

7/17/13 11:22 AM

"firmly in wheels camp"

As am I.


I have to say, the way CF said to the camera that he was racing clean totally stunk in a LA arrogant way too. Micro micro dosing, and what ? ;)

EPO was new at one point too.

Fully admit to being very skeptical, now time for a ride...

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ErikS
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 8337
Location: Slowing boiling over in the steamy south, Global Warming is real

7/17/13 11:30 AM

They all dope.

Well, I think the year Evans won they were for the most part clean.

Sky as a team is in orbit since the rest day.

I want to see the watts for the TT and the Ventoux before I formulate my full opinion but at this time, I agree with Wheels.

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Dave B
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 4511
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

7/17/13 12:07 PM

Nope


quote:
Did I do something to offend you?

Not in the slightest. I'm skeptical too but the current testing is so much better than in the LA days and the UCI is much more afraid of being seen as abetting cheating that the chances they are racing clean is still pretty high.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

7/17/13 3:50 PM

"the chances they are racing clean is still pretty high"

Just like virus software stops all virus instances on your computer, exactly like that. I think the chances they are racing clean is not likely. The question is [again] what is the EPO dejour?

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6884
Location: Maine

7/17/13 4:15 PM

Good luck

"The truth lies at the bottom of a bottomless pit."

As Facher (Robert Duval) said to Schlictmann (John Travolta), "A Civil Action"

I have no idea whether these guys are doping, but the rigors of testing and severity of consequences convince me of nothing. Many athletes have said they would take substances which would shorten their life in order to obtain success. The dopers may or may not be ahead of the testing, how would you know for sure?

Just recently we see recidivist dopers in track like Tyson Gay, who was a great "coming clean" story. In baseball too.

I just don't take the professional sport seriously, saves time and wasted mental energy.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

7/17/13 5:10 PM

"I just don't take the professional sport seriously, saves time and wasted mental energy."

I do a lot of Fast Forwarding on the DVR myself. ;)

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sandiway
Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Posts: 4902
Location: back in Tucson

7/17/13 5:56 PM

No one dopes alone

No one dopes alone. Athletes aren't clever enough to do the stuff alone.

If Froome is an arrogant SOB, he will make enemies. If he does, someone will spill the beans eventually.

If he is truly smart, and has learned from the Lance era, and *if* he is doping, he better be very nice and generous with his teammates and helpers.

If he is clean, and the rest of team Sky is dirty, I think Froome would know. Team Sky has been good but not overwhelmingly good.

If he is clean and team Sky is clean, he has nothing to worry about.

As a rider, Froome is better than Wiggins. As a team, Sky was stronger last year in the sense Wiggins had Froome as a helper a la Richie Porte. If Froome wins this year, Wiggins had better get used to being a helper or leave for another team.

Sandiway

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

7/17/13 9:36 PM

Jean Christophe Péraud wins the daily 'can't stay on the fooking bike' award.. Poor guy!


When he hit the ground on the same side of his fractured clav, both Elaine and I grabbed our clavs
and did a Soprano's Ohhhh!

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walter
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 4391
Location: metro-motown-area

7/18/13 5:51 AM

Team Sky releases Froome's power data

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/team-sky-releases-froomes-power-data


quote:
"The extremely high maximal aerobic power (efforts of five minutes) confirms that he has an extraordinary high aerobic potential, which means he has a V02 max (this has never been measured in the laboratory by his team) close to the limits of known physiological science."

"The exceptional power that he is able to develop during maximum efforts of five minutes gives him a certain reserve (of strength) compared to other athletes. This gives an indication of why he is capable of performing on the final climbs. It is estimated that, compared to his main rivals, he has a margin of 20 watts extra power. It is this difference that can be seen for example between him and his main rivals on the climbs and Ax 3 Domaines du Ventoux."



with such great genetic V02 potential, why are we only just now hearing about froomie the last couple of years? people with such off-the-charts potential are the class of the field when they're juniors, when they're espoirs, when they're neo-pros. he should have a world-title or 2 in his palmares as he worked his way up to the pros.

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Dave B
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 4511
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

7/18/13 5:58 AM


quote:
with such great genetic V02 potential, why are we only just now hearing about froomie the last couple of years?

First, he grew up in Africa where bicycle racing isn't much of a sport and the athletes get little recognition outside of the area and second, he had a parasitic infection they just got under control.

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walter
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 4391
Location: metro-motown-area

7/18/13 6:06 AM

bilharzia

i'd read about that...when did he pick up this bug?

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ErikS
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 8337
Location: Slowing boiling over in the steamy south, Global Warming is real

7/18/13 6:07 AM

got it under control using what?

That article told us nothing other than he is superman. I want to see the power outputs in hard numbers so I can compare them to known juicers. We already know he can perform as the article stated.

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walter
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 4391
Location: metro-motown-area

7/18/13 6:32 AM

"close to the limits of known physiol science"

that's a big red flag there.

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Paul Datars
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 1229
Location: Manotick, Ontario, Canada

7/18/13 7:10 AM

Dan, can't believe you mentioned "A Civil Action" because I just stumbled upon this book a couple days ago when Sally dragged me into a quaint little bookstore in New Paltz...go figure. I usually just sit there sipping on my coffee but when I noticed the title "A Civil Action" I picked it up and walked out with it. Actually I did pay for it, a whole 5 bucks because it was used.

As someone who has been fastidiously watching his power since 1999 I can tell you that IF they provided the actual power numbers for Froome it might still be difficult to determine for sure if he was or wasn't doping. Now IF they provided ALL his power numbers for the whole Tour you might be able to see something if it were actually there.

You see, I just finished reading David Millar's book and was struck by how much more benefit he says doping has for the later days in a tour. I actually came away with the impression that unless you're racing very hard for many successive days you're not really going to get the true benefits, kinda like you'd be wasting the dope. It made me rethink the potential benefits of doping for a recreational cyclists. I've ridden with some guys I thought must have been doping, now I've got to wondering if the truth was, they were just that much better than me :-(

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Dave B
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 4511
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

7/18/13 9:08 AM

Africa


quote:
i'd read about that...when did he pick up this bug?

I seem from contaminated water in Africa.

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walter
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 4391
Location: metro-motown-area

7/18/13 9:24 AM

bilharzia, part deux

i like this in the discussion beneath the article. i have a much easier time believing wiggo is clean vs. froomie -- froomie has just never shown the class.


quote:
Chris was a very mediocre rider prior to 2010, went to Kenya in 2010 and got schistosomiasis, came back in 2011 and suddenly transformed from a rider who struggled to 5th in the lowly commonwealth games and managed an 83rd 34th and a DQ in his previous grand tour appearances into a rider who finishes second at a Vuelta (while still supposedly battling this heretofore unmentioned parasite) he likely could've won had he not begun the race riding for Wiggo and then goes on to finish second at the Tour where he again could've ridden away with it if not for Wiggo before comically demolishing the best riders in the world on his way to a nearly 5 minute lead with four stages remaining including the queens stage.... and only now do they mention this mysterious parasite.

Chris Froome definitely picked something up in Kenya back in 2010 but it damn sure wasn't a parasite.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

7/18/13 11:04 AM

On a lighter note:

According to commentary on todays stage, Valverde yesterday rides his TT bike back to the hotel. Wonder how much sooner than the bus he got back with all the traffic he skated past. ;) That's great, LOL.

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mag7
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 888
Location: Lake James, NC

7/18/13 7:37 PM

I still say let 'em dope and let them climb like angels to the Sky (pun).
The cheats will always be in front of the controls...remember Hamilton's statement "they have their doctors, we have ours....ours are better."

Assuming there is still doping in the peloton, after all of these years, seems to me the goal of a 100% clean peloton is unrealistic.

To the argument that it is for the health of the riders, did rampant EPO, testostorone, etc. result in riders tipping over dead? No.
I have long wondered about the longevity of professional cyclists given the rigors of racing, especially the TdF and recently found an interesting study.

The University of Valencia, Spain study concluded the life expectancy of professional cyclists who competed in the TdF was approximately 8 years longer, stating:

"The age at which 50% of the general population died was 73.5 vs. 81.5 years in Tour de France participants. Our major finding is that repeated very intense exercise prolongs life span in well trained practitioners. Our findings underpin the importance of exercising without the fear that becoming exhausted might be bad for one's health."

Hammer down.....

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

7/18/13 8:13 PM

Color me skeptical, but it seemed Alberto went back for a bike change [giving up a gap to yellow jersey group] before the last assent up the little hill. Right after Paul mentioned on race radio that he heard something about all the bikes getting weighed at the end of the stage...


ALSO: The fine for eating should have been a lot higher in time I thought.

Question: if the rider had the goo packets in his pocket already he can eat it. Is it that he just can't take it from the team car or another team member in those times/windiows the rule applies. Is that correct ?

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

7/18/13 10:40 PM

UCI technological coordinator Mottet confimed with VeloNews that both of Contador’s bikes were checked following the stage, and both came in at exactly 6.8kg.

I am calling BS on this. All they had to do was swap on a seat & post after he sawpped so when they pulled off the one bike to weigh it, yadi.

If Froome can eat/cheat, Contador, well we know he cheats, right? ;)

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