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Multi day bike riding?
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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

3/19/13 11:20 AM

Multi day bike riding?

I want to [think I want to] get out for a few days at a time this year. So a tent or just hotel overnights, views, hours of non race pedaling etc.

So bike wise, trying to [con]figure what out of what I have would be the best choice. Or if I should get some parts and toss together something pannier worthy etc.

If I do try to find a touring type frame [too bad the Trek 620 in the garage is too small] I am trying to get a handle on bar height and reach as compared to my current bikes. I am going to have to deal with this healing nerve and want to open up the angle of my hip, and probably this is congruent with higher bars and this type of riding anyway.

My brain is telling me a leaning larger frame is going to be more comfortable. my BridgeStone 400 I think would be the first choice out of the garage, but not for paniers, so maybe a first [of a few] light 3 day acclimate ride?

I am generally thinking of loosing one of my current 'fast' bikes in favor of multi use ride eventually. That said, I am not against seeking out a old frame to build up, I have a lot of parts so pretty much need only a frame. One issue on a frame is the height VS length. The Trek 620 is at the edge of stand over and is way too short on the Top tube, like by an inch, unless someone can tell me for this type riding and being more up right with the bar lessens the top tube length window.

Higher bar brings the bar closer etc., but the highest I have ridden bar with in forever is 2-2-1/2" lower than seat on my now high bar bike, the BR400. Seems like for this kind of riding it is common to have the bar that much higher than the seat.

Is pulling a trailer of some sort behind the BR400 a viable option ?

Totally new territory for me. Both the bike and posting a totally cycling related thread. ;O

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

3/19/13 12:04 PM


quote:
a tent or just hotel overnights, views, hours of non race pedaling etc

If you're just hoteling, you don't need anything special. Throw a clamp-on rear rack and a trunk bag, you're all set.

I've been doing it that way for up to 4 days. I prefer B&B instead of hotel. 1) I can roll my bike indoors, never any objection. The owner will accomondate in any way they see fit. 2) I've been able to (by asked politely) do laundry so 2 sets of riding shorts were sufficient.

The advantage of B&B/hotel touring is obvious. Use regular bike, and the bike is almost as light as usual. No change in how to ride and estimation of how fast/far you'll be riding, etc.

I've only bike camp once. Never done it a second time. So you can guess how I feel about it. ;-)

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

3/19/13 12:10 PM

Also, opinion as to GP4 All season tires heavy duty enough? I am thinking yes for less than a loaded tour...

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

3/19/13 12:14 PM

tire

that depends on quite a few variables.

I've been using my regular tires (GP2000) for many of my tours (Cali, a bit of Oregon and BC), though I'm a bit lighter than you.

Since I got my cross bike, I've been using that instead. I sometimes take the wheel with cross tire so I can freely take on any dirt roads in my way (usually the more enjoyable way).

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Dave B
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 4511
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

3/19/13 2:56 PM


quote:
....my BridgeStone 400 I think would be the first choice out of the garage, but not for paniers.

IIRC, my '85 BS 400 had rear dropout eyelets and would take a rack using the eyelets and a bracket over the rear brake bridge that shared the brake bolt.

Blackburn makes racks the attach that way and unless you are going very heavily loaded a rear rack with panniers, some other stuff bungee corded on top of the rack and perhaps a handlebar bag should carry more than enough.

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cyclotourist
Joined: 04 Mar 2005
Posts: 116

3/19/13 3:08 PM

touring

My wife and I love heading out on loaded touring trips every summer. We have dedicated full-on loaded tourers with front and rear racks--the whole two-wheeled RV thing. We love camping so, the heavy duty bikes are needed. I tried the Riv handlebars higher than the saddle thing. Felt great at first, but after a couple of hours it killed my posterior. I've settled on bars about 1.5 inches below the saddle. My wife prefers her bars a couple of inches higher than the saddle, so opinions will vary. I think the widest tires you can fit is the way to go...and fenders to keep things cleaner and relatively dry. For that reason alone, an actual touring frame might be worth finding. But definitely try it out with a bike you already have to make sure touring is your cuppa tea.

David

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Nick Payne
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 2625
Location: Canberra, Australia

3/19/13 9:29 PM

I really like saddlebags for light touring. For trips of a couple of days to a week or so, staying in hotels/motels, that's all we take. Here's a couple of photos showing the setup: Switzerland in 2004 and a tour in the Victorian Alps a couple of years back. The bags on my bikes are Carradice Camper longflap and on Ann's bike a Carradice Lowsaddle longflap.

Touring with just a saddlebag is much better than lumbering the bike up with panniers. Provided you stop the saddlebag from swaying around, the handling of the bike is hardly affected compared with riding an unloaded bike, even with a dozen kilograms in the bag.



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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

3/19/13 10:06 PM

For local weekender...

...I sometimes just mail the stuff to the B&B a few days ahead so I can ride with no luggage at all!

Then mail the unused stuff and dirty laundry home and ride home unencumbered.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

3/19/13 10:10 PM

Thanks everyone.

I think Nick path will be a good one for me. I have a front bar bag that came with the 620, and I think I will look for one of those long flap back bags there...

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sandiway
Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Posts: 4902
Location: back in Tucson

3/19/13 10:55 PM

mailing things

I think that's a great idea April. I wish I'd thought of doing that.

Mailing a bag to a B&B is like having a drop bag in randonneur terminology.

Sandiway

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Nick Payne
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 2625
Location: Canberra, Australia

3/19/13 11:09 PM

If you're going to get a longflap, I'd suggest Wiggle in the UK as the cheapest place to buy one. I've found them to be cheaper than buying direct from Carradice, and much cheaper than any of the Oz or US web merchants I've seen who sell them, plus they also have free international shipping for this value of order.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/carradice-camper-longflap-saddle-bag/

My favourite way of fastening saddlebags is using the Nitto saddlebag mount with quick release, which fastens to the saddle rails, as seen in the photo below of one of my bikes. Unfortunately, I just had a look at a few web merchants and it seems that at most places the mounts are now more expensive than the bags themselves. The cheapest price I could find of about $90 including postage was at Japanese Amazon: http://www.amazon.co.jp/NITTO-R-50-%E3%82%B5%E3%83%89%E3%83%AB%E3%83%90%E3%83%83%E3%82%B0%E3%82%B0%E3%83%AA%E3%83%83%E3%83%97-%E3%83%8B%E3%83%83%E3%83%88%E3%83%BC/dp/B008HOO61U .

The Zimbale mount is not as nice, and doesn't mount the bag as high, which can lead to it sagging onto the wheel/fender, but is a hell of a lot cheaper at less than $20: http://www.zimbale.com/Front/Product/?url=Product&product_no=SFZIMSOT0000038&main_cate_no=AA000000&display_group=1

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6884
Location: Maine

3/20/13 2:43 AM

Plus 1 on Longflap

I have a Camper Longflap on my commuting bike and love it. I use it with a support bracket which keeps it a bit more upright and stabilizes it.

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Andy M-S
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3377
Location: Hamden (greater New Haven) CT

3/20/13 4:44 AM

Saddle bags are nice. A handlebar bag is also a very nice thing, for extra space and stuff you'll want to reach--phone, camera (if separate) map, jacket, food. If you have a good rack, panniers can also be nice. If you ride without fenders (see below) panniers may be a better choice than a saddlebag and/or handlebar bag, since they're out of the line of wheel spray.

If you're not looking to race, a high bar can be a good thing--easy on the neck, lets you look around. I wouldn't put it much higher than the seat, unless that makes you more comfortable. Note also that a high bar may make you want a different saddle...I use a Brooks Swift on a low-bar bike, but a B17 or equivalent when the bar is near saddle height.

Fenders let you travel comfortably after a drenching rain, or even in light rain. And keep your bags dry!

Now, tell me about the 620 in your garage. Size? Year? Possibly for sale? Hmmmm?

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

3/20/13 8:14 AM

Mailing stuff

Due to the mailing time, it works best when I start and finish from home. Otherwise, we typically ride too fast for the bag to keep up. Though I suppose you can mail it to a destination you expect to reach 2-3 days later.


quote:
If you ride without fenders (see below) panniers may be a better choice than a saddlebag and/or handlebar bag, since they're out of the line of wheel spray.


Andy, my experience is the opposite. The rack itself block the spray and protects the bag, and your back too.


quote:
Fenders let you travel comfortably after a drenching rain, or even in light rain. And keep your bags dry!

I don't do long tours. So I just don't go when it's expected to rain.

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Andy M-S
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3377
Location: Hamden (greater New Haven) CT

3/20/13 8:26 AM

It depends on the rack. Some include a shelf, but the ones I like for strength (Axiom) don't have top shelves, so...but it's a valid point.

As for the rain--I commute by bike, so fenders are a necessity. And I *love* going out for a ride just after a summer downpour. Fenders keep me and mine nice and dry (and the bike significantly cleaner). Plus they do keep any water (or, as BSNYC notes, maybe it's not water) off your bags.

Not a necessity, but there's no real downside to fenders, either.

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Dave B
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 4511
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

3/20/13 9:04 AM

Some Thoughts

For racks with out a top shelf (some Blackburn models also fall in this catagory), I've made up a cover of coated nylon pack cloth held in place with velcro tabs to serve the same purpose. It keeps water spray off of the things on top.

Fenders do have some downsides. The most obvious are weight and a tendency to rattle on rough roads and the fact they restrict tire size on most bikes. They also make putting a bike into a car or van more difficult since they stick out well beyond the fork when the front wheel is removed. Finally they complicate rear wheel flat repair. I've had fenders on a couple of bikes and they can be a great asset in the rain but the rest of the time they are less than helpful.

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Andy M-S
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3377
Location: Hamden (greater New Haven) CT

3/20/13 9:21 AM

Fenders


quote:
The most obvious are weight and a tendency to rattle on rough roads and the fact they restrict tire size on most bikes. They also make putting a bike into a car or van more difficult since they stick out well beyond the fork when the front wheel is removed. Finally they complicate rear wheel flat repair. I've had fenders on a couple of bikes and they can be a great asset in the rain but the rest of the time they are less than helpful.


As to weight--between a full and an empty waterbottle (I'm using SKS P35 fenders).

As to noise--I have a little rattle from road debris, mostly sand, but if they actually rattle , I think you've installed them wrong.

Restrict tire size--maybe. Frames meant for racing will generally not like fenders. On my VO Rando, though, I can easily fit 28mm tires. I tend to think of this as a frame problem, not a fender problem.

Loading into a car--yes, I guess. I can't fit the frame with the front tire off into my VW Beetle anyway, so I didn't think of that. Saris racks to the rescue! But yeah.

Rear wheel repair--yes, if you have short chain stays and/or horizontal dropouts. If you have vertical dropouts, tire repair is easy.

On the plus side: ability to ride in wet weather, good place to mount taillights and/or reflectors, lessen the impact of water and dust on the drivetrain, generally keep the bike cleaner (and if you use a Brooks or other saddle, they protect that as well).

A matter of taste? Perhaps.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

3/20/13 9:39 AM

OK, now that we have some major chime in. What tires and size do we like??

I'd have to really get used to tires like the Pasala 35C [32x 105 14 ga brass nips heavy rims] I had on my Trekenstein when commuting to the LBS job in 2011. When I pulled them for my 32x Revo [14/15 drive side] aerohead rimmed and GP4 28C, it felt like a breath of fresh air.

But I was really speed commuting as it was only 10 mile each way. And when the weather got nice I pulled out the Strong and the speed of the commute was faster, and I often left 2 hours early to get some more pedal time in going.

Wheel wise, even better now with the 28C GP4s and the A23 wider rims, tire sits out to full 28mm. This is the wheelset I will take for my virgin mobile quests. ;) Light spokes, but plenty of them 3x

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Andy M-S
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3377
Location: Hamden (greater New Haven) CT

3/20/13 9:56 AM

Pressure Matters

My 28mm tires are Panaracer Pasela TG. They were cheap. They seem to work well, but when I first got them, I put them up to max pressure (95 PSI) and hated them. Now max is 85 and I often run a bit lower and they're just fine. CXP33 rims, 32 DB spokes.

I know lots of folks who like fatter tires, but they're running 650B. I found 35mm to feel ginormous--not bad, but unwieldy.

Again, tastes will differ. I've done cross-state rides on 23mm tires and not suffered at all.

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

3/20/13 10:02 AM

matter of taste

Indeed.

"I tend to think of this as a frame problem, not a fender problem. "

That's a biggie. If you don't already have a frame that accepts fenders, you're talking about a new frame, which is not a small investment. So, unless there're other reason to get another frame in the first place, fender is not as easy an add-on as one thinks. And all the positive you listed aren't enough to justify getting another frame for the purpose of accepting fenders!

"Loading into a car--yes, I guess. "

That's also a pretty big one, for non-commuter bikes that is. If I need to go somewhere overnight, I would hate to leave the bike on a rack in a dark motel parking lot!

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

3/20/13 10:26 AM

"Now, tell me about the 620 in your garage. Size? Year?

Andy, 1984, 22-1/2". It is for sale, but I honestly don't see how it could be equitable to pay to ship it outside this market. And that in PDX it is worth probably more than most other markets. These due to bang for the buck and retro grouches go for as much as 600.00 and sometime more if perfect. And this on is not perfect in that it has a dent in the top tube. Not crease or crack in the paint, but a dent is a dent. ;)

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Andy M-S
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3377
Location: Hamden (greater New Haven) CT

3/20/13 10:45 AM

620

Grrrrr.

Ah, well, I don't really need another bike anyway. :-(

You should sell that one and use the proceeds to build your weekend touring model. I bet (in PDX) you could trade the frame for a near-complete Surly LHT.

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Dave B
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 4511
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

3/20/13 10:56 AM

Tires

I have Vittoria Rondonneur 700-28 tires on my Surly Pacer and run these at about their 85 psi sidewall maximum. Their actual installed width measures about 26 mm and the calibration number I entered into my Cat-Eye, based on this size seems very accurate over a known riding distance.

They have been very reliable and flat proof so far over 1200+ miles. They are not light measuring just under 500 grams each. Vittoria makes a Randonneur Pro with a folding bead and less weight, ~420 grams in 700-32, the smallest size they are made in, but I haven't tried these. Maybe when mine wear out.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

3/20/13 11:23 AM

I think the 620 is newer, did not dig in yet. But it has canti's and 700C wheels.

I looked in the box of stuff that came with it, and have some light pannier clip ons that will fit a normal rack. As soon as I de-mold them...

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Andy M-S
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3377
Location: Hamden (greater New Haven) CT

3/20/13 11:37 AM

Hmmm

620s of that era should have (as original) 27" wheels, not 700c. Cantis are a good sign.

Are you sure it won't fit? 'Cause the 620 makes a hell of a nice touring ride, with room for fat tires, fenders, front and/or rear panniers, and a ride like a limo due the longest wheelbase in the business.

Seriously.

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