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Grand Canyon ??
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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

3/19/13 1:39 PM

well considering the thread title, I though that was understood actually.

Anyway, I see i am not the only one getting debug errors and DPs

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JohnC
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1939
Location: Glastonbury, Ct

3/19/13 2:27 PM

Dark Sky

Another suggestion for stargazing. Great Basin National Park, in eastern Nevada. 250 miles from Las Vegas, about the same from Salt Lake City. Nearest town of any size is Ely, about 40 miles away and population about 4,000. Not much light pollution. There's a campground at about 10,000 feet at the base of Wheeler Peak. (The hike to the top of the 13,000-foot peak is steep and rocky, but no technical climbing.) There might be 25,000 people living within 90 miles of this park, but maybe not quite. It's dark.

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sandiway
Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Posts: 4902
Location: back in Tucson

3/19/13 3:06 PM

re: lake mead

I took this one after I took the tour. About 10,000 pixels across. It was near the golden hour. I'm having it printed professionally (60" across) to mount on the wall at home. I'll see if it looks good at that size...



Sandiway

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

3/19/13 3:40 PM

Beautiful Sandi

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

3/19/13 3:47 PM


quote:
well considering the thread title, I though that was understood actually.

Well, it was said tongue in cheek.

Hoover Dam can be taken as a side trip of the Grand Canyon north rim, but not the other way around. Just keep in mind it's a very distance second in terms of scenic drama and significance when compared to the GC. Others had suggested destination much more in line with the grandio of GC, Bryce/Zion/Escalante etc.

As such, although there're other "stuff to see/do" around Hoover Dam, you should re-consider about spending too much time there. Much better to focus on the Grand Canyon and other national parks in UT. They're famus for a very good reason.

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Steve B.
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Posts: 769
Location: Long Island, NY

3/19/13 4:27 PM

Agree with April.

There ARE other things to do and see in and around LV (if you don't want to actually do anything IN LV), just not as many of the top spectacle scenic tourist attractions, as you find at the GC and in southern Utah.

I've been to the south rim a few times, all as trips from our home base in Santa Fe, when we could take a 3 day trip and explore. I've also been to the north rim once, and liked it but found the scenic views somewhat less spectacular then the south rim. Mostly as the north rim is far less developed in terms of places to actually view the canyon, unless you are able to get off onto the dirt roads and/or hike a lot to see the scenery (tough to do in 3 days with all the driving we did). The south rim is all configured for the car tourist but is terrific on a bike as well.

The great thing about the north rim, is many fewer tourists in cars, and once you spend the time and energy (it's 270 miles from LV), you have no excuse to also not go visit Bryce, Zion and Cedar Breaks NM. ALL are highly recommended.

One trip my wife did I did was Zion, then Cedar City, Utah to Green River via Cedar Breaks, Bryce, Escalante and Capitol Reef parks and monuments. My eyeballs were tired after all this, literally. And they are all so different in amazing ways with the GC being the whole enchilada of geological history, and all the others being portions of it that you can actually get close too.

And you have to read Desert Solitaire by Edward Abbey before going to the American desert. Required reading.

SB

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3307
Location: Springfield

3/19/13 7:20 PM

Blackness

I brought the subject up because when I traveled from Alamosa CO to Albuquerque NM, leaving about 2:00am on a crystal clear moonless winter night, I thought that I would find a really black sky along the way. Granted, it was darker than 99.999% of my experience, but I could still see the snow and there was a glow at the north and south horizons. Picky Picky, right? I found a VERY satisfactory sweet spot, but the light from gas stations along the way made a haze visible for dozens of miles.

As negative as that assessment sounds, in that sweet spot the sky really seemed 3-D.

If you ever wonder how astronomers can model the shape of our galaxy from looking along the edge, a view like that will jump your imagination ahead a decade.

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JohnC
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1939
Location: Glastonbury, Ct

3/19/13 7:44 PM

Second the Abbey recommendation, which brings up another park: Arches. If you could only go to one park in the Southwest, I'd recommend Zion. For a second, it would be a a tossup between GC and Arches.

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Wheels
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 1160
Location: Needham, MA

3/19/13 9:01 PM

I have been to them all

I used to live in Salt Lake City and have been to Zion, Arches, GC, Bryce, Hoover Dam, DV Canyonlands,....

In my opinion Arches is the best out of all of them, with Bryce next, Zion next, and then the GC or Canyonlands.


Arches has a lot of the features that the others have, just not on the same scale. But, it has the largest concentration of stone arches in the world, where as the others have only a few at best. The Fiery Furnace is a maze of slot canyons.

Bryce has a very unique landscape that is difficult to find anywhere else in the world. The Hoo Doos are just so cool.

Zion has probably one of the greatest slot canyons in the world. Hiking the Virgin River through the twisty sheer cliff slot canyon is surreal.

My issue with the GC is that it is Sooooooo Massive. It is difficult get your arms around just how big it is. I have also seen it from 35,000 ft and it's massive from there.

As far as the GC being near LV. No way. ~300 miles from LV to South rim, North Rim,a little less. And don't forget, last 40 miles or so (North Rim) is inside the park, so your not going 50+ mph, more like 40 max. Took me about 4 h to drive from St. George, UT to North Rim even though it is 150 miles. Add another 2 h from LV to St. G.

If I was in LV, I'd concentrate on Hoover Dam, Zion and Ceder Breaks. If you want to go south, DV and Joshua Tree are real cool.

Fly into Flagstaff or Phoenix for closet Major Airport to GC (South Rim).

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

3/19/13 9:08 PM

Yes on Ceder Breaks!

It's a smaller version of Bryce Canyon, without the crowd. Makes for a much nicer experience.

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JohnC
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1939
Location: Glastonbury, Ct

3/20/13 9:06 AM

Wheels, what you say about the scale of the Grand Canyon, and the difficulty of comprehending it, is very true. A ranger giving a talk on one of my visits tried to explain the scale by pointing to a mesa in the base of the canyon that reached maybe halfway up from the bottom. "That mountain," he said, "if it were in Ohio, would be a National Park."

My wife and I were fortunate enough on a trip about 30 years ago to have a chance to hike to the bottom, stay overnight (camped out, and ate at Phantom Ranch) and hike out the next day. That's the way to start to get a feel for the immensity of it, though even a good day hike 4 or 5 miles down Bright Angel Trail and back out is very worthwhile.

Putting my hand against a wall of 2-billion-year-old schist near the bottom of the canyon is not something I'll forget.

Arches, Zion, Bryce. They are mystical places. Arches is probably the easiest to find some solitude in.

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sandiway
Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Posts: 4902
Location: back in Tucson

3/20/13 11:48 AM

scale of grand canyon


quote:
My wife and I were fortunate enough on a trip about 30 years ago to have a chance to hike to the bottom, stay overnight (camped out, and ate at Phantom Ranch) and hike out the next day.


Yeah, I think hiking down to the river and back up is an excellent way to appreciate it.

I've done the hike twice as a simple daylight hike. Start in the morning at the rim and get to Phantom Ranch, have a cold beer, and hike back up before sunset. Take some pictures at the rim, and have dinner at one of the hotels perched on the edge. Highly recommended for more active folks.

Sandiway

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JohnC
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1939
Location: Glastonbury, Ct

3/20/13 12:08 PM


quote:
Highly recommended for more active folks


"More active" may be an understatement, though most of the folks who frequent this board would probably be up to it with a little preparation. It's a heck of a long day hike.

We did it in February, and there probably wouldn't have been daylight enough for a one-day round trip.

The climate difference top to bottom is fascinating. We had ice on the trail at the top, daytime temps in the 70's at the bottom (but frost in the morning).

Your Lake Mead panorama is gorgeous, BTW. The big print will be spectacular.

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sandiway
Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Posts: 4902
Location: back in Tucson

3/20/13 1:01 PM

re: phantom ranch

I think it's generally hard to get reservations at Phantom Ranch since it's a small place and the Grand Canyon is such a popular destination for hikers. That's one reason why I chose to dayhike it down to the Colorado River and back up in daylight. There are lots of warning signs telling you not to attempt this but I believe this is simply to discourage couch potato types from getting in over their heads and needing rescue.

Both times I went down the South Kaibab and up the Bright Angel trails. I am planning on going there again in late May. I wanna take some nicer panoramas, the problem is that the nice light is nearer sunset or dawn (rather than midday), and the Bright Angel trail is less spectacular than the Kaibab trail. So I'm debating whether I should descend Bright Angel and ascend Kaibab instead. However, Kaibab is steeper and has no water sources but Bright Angel has several. I carry 200 oz of water at the start. Or maybe try not to combine things, one thing is I'd need to carry the camera pre-attached to the tripod for speed, but to do the hiking and photography on separate days...

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sandiway
Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Posts: 4902
Location: back in Tucson

3/20/13 9:23 PM

printed!

60" wide x 17" high mounted on foamcore. $150 total.
About as wide as my two-seater sofa. Hmm, now I got it up on the wall, I wonder if I should have gone even bigger...




Sandiway

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

3/20/13 9:32 PM

Buddy Guy would approve of some of those pillows on your couch Sandi... ;)

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Rickk
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 528
Location: Montreal

3/21/13 5:34 PM

Re. the panoramic shot taken "near the golden hour"

Nice e pic!

Q/ what / when exactly is the golden hour in photographic terms?

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Wheels
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 1160
Location: Needham, MA

3/21/13 5:38 PM

Golden Hour

Mostly sunset. However, some say Sunset and Dawn.

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sandiway
Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Posts: 4902
Location: back in Tucson

3/21/13 6:37 PM

golden hour

Wheels is the expert photographer here. I'm just an amateur.

I'd just add it's because of the harshness of light at other times of the day (assuming a sunny day). For example, here in the desert southwest, it's very hard to get a nice photo around midday because the contrast between bright and the dark parts of the picture is very great.

In fact, I believe it's bigger than the dynamic range of current camera sensors, and more importantly, bigger than the dynamic range that computer screens and printed paper can represent. So printed pictures tend to disappoint compared to what our eyes can see.

During the golden hour, the sun is much lower in the sky and the light is much less harsh. That makes for nice softly lit landscapes. I'd timed my drive and visit to Hoover Dam to be in late afternoon so I could take advantage of the light.

Sandiway

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

3/21/13 6:58 PM

Golden hour = dawn

I'm not a serious photographer. I take picture mostly as a record of whatever I was doing or where I was. As such, I primarily focus on getting the mood of the surrounding. Light is the key in "catching the mood"

I'm not a morning person. So for the longest time, I conviniently believe since sunset is ONE of the golden hour, so for me the golden hour is almost exclusively sunset.

But I must say the very few times, when I was up and concious at dawn, the light is often absolutely amazing that I always ended up taking as many pictures as time allows even if I didn't originally plan to take any! Every time I look at them again, I could help but to realize dawn is got to be THE gold standard of the golden hours!

I only have very few sunrise photos. I have to admit it's quite difficult to get acceptable pictures at sun rise. The light changes VERY fast so a lot of the photos are wasted. But of the few that came out right, often gets very exciting reactions from viewers!

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Rickk
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 528
Location: Montreal

3/22/13 3:54 PM

Thanks guys

and gal,
for defining "golden hour"!

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Dave B
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 4511
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

3/22/13 5:15 PM

Not Just Potatos


quote:
That's one reason why I chose to dayhike it down to the Colorado River and back up in daylight. There are lots of warning signs telling you not to attempt this but I believe this is simply to discourage couch potato types from getting in over their heads and needing rescue.

There is more to it than this, particularly in the summer. We (my wife, two kids, 8 and 10, and I) were there in July 1978 and by that time your weren't allowed to drive your own car on the East and West rim roads but had to take the Park Service bus.

One morning we were on the PS bus and there was a very fit looking guy in running shorts and shoes who said he was going to run down to the river and back that day. Late that afternoon we were on the same bus and the same guy was also on it looking like death warmed over. He had not taken adequate water and had barely made it back to the rim. He was badly dehydrated and very weak and the driver wanted to call the Park infirmary to have him looked at.

So, it isn't only the "potato types" who can get into difficulty and the Park service is very wise to advise caution.

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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 3234
Location: Midland, MI

3/22/13 6:48 PM

Water

We hiked about half way down from the north rim in June. We had been warned about having enough water and there is a water stop on the way down. We carried a lot of water with us and drank huge amounts. It got really hot really fast and it was really dry so it was hard to get enough water intake. By the time we reached our turnaround point we hadn't seen anybody in a long time. I would bet the park service is rescuing people all the time who just look at trail distiance and don't take into account the amount of climbing, the heat, hydration, etc.

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Steve B.
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Posts: 769
Location: Long Island, NY

3/22/13 7:16 PM

Another great book about the desert, this one about hiking at the GC is "The Man Who Walked Through Time", Colin Fletcher.

A British walking fool (lot's of those) who decided to be the first man to walk from (most of) one end of the GC to the other, in 1963 (in one trip). Pretty much followed one of the "benches" that are the flat'ish portions as the first level off the river. He had to have the NPS air drop supplies in 2 locations (they sure don't do that today !).

An amazing story, still interesting 50 years later as is his book "Thousand Mile Summer" about hiking the desert and high sierra country of California, before the Pacific Crest Trail was invented.

Colin also wrote "The Complete Walker", which is considered by many to be the book that started the backpacking boom in the 70's.

And as an interesting hiking story - "Wild" by Cheryl Strayed. Hiking the Pacific Crest Trail when you are totally not prepared, but do it anyway.

Sorry for the thread diversion. Long distance hiking was what I did when I had better ankles. Now I bike instead.

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Rickk
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 528
Location: Montreal

3/23/13 6:36 AM

Sorry for more thread diversion

From majestic deserts and canyons ...
to glaciers....
http://www.youtube.com/embed/hC3VTgIPoGU?rel=0

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