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Water bottles vs. dishwashers
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Alenhoff
Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 237
Location: Detroit, MI

12/30/12 11:10 AM

Water bottles vs. dishwashers

For years, I've been quite happily throwing my assortment of water bottles into my dishwasher -- but then I bought a new dishwasher. It must heat the water to a higher temp, since now bottles are coming out with melted threads, which makes it hard/impossible to screw on the cap or to keep the top from leaking.

Anyone know of any water bottles that are truly dishwasher safe?

Alan

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17537
Location: Portland, OR

12/30/12 11:25 AM

I think Placement in the DW is the issue. I use regular bottles and have the DW on Sanitize and water heated for the wash. I keep the bottles on top or middle bottom away from the heater element. I have some 10 year old bottle still in service FWIW.

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Dave B
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 4511
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

12/30/12 11:47 AM

Sparky pretty much has it. Keep the bottle on the top rack away from the heating element. If you heat dry the dishes, that element gets very hot. You can save energy, money and probably your bottles by usnig an unheated drying cycle.

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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 3014
Location: Midland, MI

12/30/12 8:06 PM

Saving energy


quote:
You can save energy, money and probably your bottles by usnig an unheated drying cycle.


This is pretty much it. Check your dishwasher settings to eliminate the heated drying cycle and to eliminate the dishwasher heating the water extra hot. Neither is necessary and both are a waste of electricity.

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3303
Location: Springfield

12/31/12 6:52 AM

But my stuff doesn't get dry...

It takes some effort but,

When the (unheated) dry cycle starts open it up, shake the plastics as dry as you can and get a dish rag to dab out the pools from the upside down mugs, etc. There's plenty of heat in the dishes to finish the job when you close it back up.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4545
Location: Nashua, NH

12/31/12 9:39 AM

Or...

...you could just wash your bottles by hand <gasp>. Really, how much of a chore is it? Plus, it doesn't require any electricity at all! ;-)

Maybe there's an app for that...

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Alenhoff
Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 237
Location: Detroit, MI

12/31/12 11:22 AM

Thanks to all for suggestions.

I had been turning off the dryer cycle on my old dishwasher. But my new, high-tech wonder machine goes through some super-long, energy- and water-saving routine that seemed to leave everything soaked if I turned off the dryer. I'm re-visiting the owner's manual. Maybe there's a better way.

My other issue is that I really like those super-sized Zefal Magnum 33 oz bottles, and they don't fit on the top rack. Oh well.

(And Brian, if I'm using the dishwasher for everything else, I'd actually be using more water and energy (to heat that water) to separately hand wash a couple of bottles. And, I'd think there is a fair chance my dishwasher is more efficient than hand-washing a load of dishes, since the light cycle I use requires only 3.9 gallons of water -- and doesn't do any additional heating of the water.)

Alan

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17537
Location: Portland, OR

12/31/12 12:19 PM

"My other issue is that I really like those super-sized Zefal Magnum 33 oz bottles, and they don't fit on the top rack. Oh well. "


My DW top rack has a drop function, so the big bottle make it up there. So does your top rack drop? seem like the newer one tend to have this feature as i recall.

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Alenhoff
Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 237
Location: Detroit, MI

12/31/12 2:36 PM


quote:
My DW top rack has a drop function, so the big bottle make it up there. So does your top rack drop? seem like the newer one tend to have this feature as i recall.


Yes it does, but then large things below don't fit. I can get a more typical large bottle on top with no problem.

Sometimes we just get used to using stuff. I have two bottle cages on all my bikes, a Camelback, etc. I'm pretty sure I can stay hydrated without using 33 oz bottles. But old habits die hard...

Alan

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Andy M-S
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3201
Location: Hamden (greater New Haven) CT

12/31/12 3:41 PM

I'll put money on the Dishwashers.

The Water Bottles don't have a prayer.

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Alenhoff
Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 237
Location: Detroit, MI

12/31/12 4:36 PM


quote:
It takes some effort but,

When the (unheated) dry cycle starts open it up, shake the plastics as dry as you can and get a dish rag to dab out the pools from the upside down mugs, etc. There's plenty of heat in the dishes to finish the job when you close it back up.


Just tried a lazy man's version of that method. I just touched a dish towel on top of all the top shelf items. Took about 10 seconds. Closed it, came back later and everything was totally dry.

So, bottles on top, no heat cycle is the plan. Thanks all.

Alan

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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 3014
Location: Midland, MI

12/31/12 7:48 PM

Open up


quote:
Closed it, came back later and everything was totally dry.


No reason to close the dishwasher and that really slows down the drying. As daddy-o described, shake the water off the plastics, make sure there's no trapped water in the bottoms of upsidedown bowls and cups and then leave the door open with both the upper and lower rack pulled out. Things will dry quickly.

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ErikS
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 8320
Location: Slowing boiling over in the steamy south, Global Warming is real

12/31/12 7:56 PM

Soap bleach soak rinse. Done. Pretty easy and cleaner than the DW will get them.

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dddd
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3283
Location: NorCal

1/1/13 1:24 AM

First, about those Magnums, there is a rubber gasket that might fall out of the cap in a dishwasher. The gasket also traps a bit of drink mix and/or water so can get moldy inside the groove it sits in. I only rinse my bottles with cold water, right after each use, but I do tighten the cap on the Magnum (with the bottle inverted and half-full of water) a couple of times to flex the gasket and thus effect a sort of rinsing of the gasket in-situ.

I noticed that if bottle caps are stored with the valve closed, the fit between the cap and stopper loses it's press-fit, so that the valve can actually act like a free-moving one-way valve when you're taking a drink. This of course can prevent the ingress of needed air into the bottle between squeezes.

I focus more on cleaning the exterior of my bottles after use, where any real nastiness will be, but I also focus on doing the water rinse-out immediately after each use. Thus far, no residues or growths (except for that Zefal gasket) to speak of after perhaps thousands of use cycles.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4545
Location: Nashua, NH

1/2/13 6:16 AM

Agreed

All I do is rinse them after use and brush the insides thoroughly to remove any growing film. It takes no more than a few ounces of hot water and maybe 30 seconds per bottle. They air dry in a dish drainer and are good to go immediately if I need them.

At work, I'll put 2-3 ounces of scalding-hot water from the cafeteria in a bottle, swirl and shake it, and it kills anything growing in it. A quick rinse with cold water, then a refill and I'm ready to hit the road.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17537
Location: Portland, OR

1/2/13 12:19 PM

Obviously, but not noted, if we use just water in said bottles they are inherently cleaner. But still I have seen slime if no tended to quickly when done.

I said that, because after I put in the RO Water filter in the house, I never got any slime, even if I leave a bottle on the bike in the garage for over a week.

Me, I need more than hot water inside for a 1/2 minute. I like the sanitize idea in the DW, But then again I am married to a Surgical 1st assistant, a real bacteria Nazi. ;)

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Alenhoff
Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 237
Location: Detroit, MI

1/2/13 12:50 PM


quote:
Me, I need more than hot water inside for a 1/2 minute. I like the sanitize idea in the DW


So do I, and for that matter, I always use water filtered in a Brita filter pitcher. The water might as well be clean and taste good -- or as good as it can taste after it's been baked in a plastic bottle in the sun for a couple of hours.

Reminds me of a story:

Some years ago, I convinced a co-worker, who had never really ridden much, to start riding with me. The first time we went out together, I noticed he had no bottle cage. So, I dug into my parts box and brought him an old cage and bottle to install.

Over the course of maybe 6-8 months of taking weekly rides, I noticed that he rarely took a sip -- and his bottle always seemed half-filled.

"You ever change the water in that bottle," I asked one day. "No, why?" was the response.

Yuck!

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17537
Location: Portland, OR

1/2/13 2:52 PM

FYI, to you 30 second folks. Minimum time in the OR is 3 MIN. @ 270^. OR=Operating Room, and method is steam FWIW.

Dr. Elaine sez: at least boiling, and entire bottle submerged in minimum boiling temp, and 5 MIN minimum...

Of course if you are doing a pre diluted bleach wash, the hot tap water to rinse would be OK.

I will keep mine going on the DW on sanitize and ultra water heating mode..

And of course it depends on the bug, right...

But if you can't see it, it is still there, and how do you know what bug it could be etc...

Sermon off. ;)

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dddd
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3283
Location: NorCal

1/2/13 4:28 PM

I have come to have the opinion that any stuff that actually grows in the presence of sports drinks (or that grows in the short time that a rinsed bottle is drying) is harmless to the human body.
I mean, if there is a toxin-producing bug in that bottle, where did it come from, the road? If that's the concern, then shouldn't we all clean off our bottle spout each time before we take a drink?

The bugs are everywhere, particularly the airborne spores that will so readily ferment our beverages, but do they need to be dealt with beyond the post-ride rinse-out? I don't think so, and if I did then I would probably be concerned about taking a drink during a ride and about breathing the air, as contaminated as it no doubt is on a windy day.

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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 3014
Location: Midland, MI

1/2/13 7:57 PM

Bug control

We have chlorinated city water (as most people do) and typically don't have to put our bottles through the dishwasher more than once or twice per season. No rinsing after each ride - we just fill our bottles at the start of the ride and don't even dump the old water. I typically drain at least one bottle on a ride so I get a fresh fill-up but my wife rarely empties a bottle. I rotate the bottles (move the full bottle to the down tube cage) so things aren't sitting around for many days. We never put any sugary drinks in our bottles and it is VERY rare that we see any signs of "growth."

If you get regular bug growth with only water in your bottles, then the old saying applies "It must be something in the water."

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stan
Joined: 14 Feb 2004
Posts: 453

1/2/13 9:35 PM

I'm with Kerry and rarely wash my bottles. I usually drink water but when I do put something with sugar in, that's was time.

The current issue of VeloNews has an interesting test of bottles. They tested Specialized (which makes a large share of bottles for about every company), Camelbak, and Clean (the one with caps that unscrew on both ends). The test consisted of filling bottles with grape juice, wine, spaghetti sauce, gatorade, and tap water. The liquid sat for periods of seven months and a year. The Specialized won but all three performed much better than I anticipated and essentially none were bad - the dishwater cleaned the worse perfectly as well.

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3303
Location: Springfield

1/2/13 9:58 PM

I don't think most families leave half finished glasses of water sitting around for a week or two before they sip some and then top it off some time later. Using that as a gauge, unless they haven't thought about it, I can't understand why the same people would treat their water bottles with less intent considering the grime.

As for sports drink duty bottles, try this cultural experiment. Brew a mug of tea and leave it out for a week. You start out with boiling or almost boiling water and a tea bag (herbal, green, black) no cream, no sugar. A week or so later a really cool spherical growth will appear floating in the tea. Hey, I started the post citing families, now that I'm a bachelor sometimes science happens, what can I say?

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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3303
Location: Springfield

1/2/13 10:09 PM

I haven't read the VN article but I wonder if they had 5 of each bottle with single ingredients or one amazing concoction. Trying to make a joke here.

Seven months?!? That's a test. For me Specialized would win because they're the cheapest to throw away and replace.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4545
Location: Nashua, NH

1/3/13 6:30 AM

I agree with dddd and Kerry

Surgical cleanliness is obviously NOT needed with water bottles. We're not trying to protect open wounds from infection and the human gut does a great job of killing most nasties. We're not typically dealing with removing water borne parasites like Giarda or Cryptosporidium, either.

While I don't typically have any problem getting the taste of drink mixes out of bottles, I've found that getting the taste or bleach or dishwashing liquid out of some of them can be nearly impossible. I also have a Camelback reservoir that was rendered unusable by the taste of dishwashing liquid. I don't use either in them any longer.

BTW, I've been using filtered drinking water for almost 30 years, since the time I was in the water filter business for a brief period.

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Andy M-S
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3201
Location: Hamden (greater New Haven) CT

1/3/13 8:12 AM

No dishwasher here

Probably because 90% of the time it's just water in the bottles, I wash and rinse them along with other things that I don't put in the dishwasher. And I don't use filtered water, either. When I put Gatorade or something else in a bottle, it's the same thing. But I *do* try to wash them at the end of each day, so nothing sits in there for any extended period.

I suppose this is like ordering whiskey in a dirty glass...

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