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OT - Acoustic/Electric Guitar
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Wheels
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 1149
Location: Needham, MA

12/17/12 2:39 PM

Tuning

When I bought my guitar, since it is a electric acoustic, part of the electronics is a tuner. However, I think you need an amp. Instead of a tuning fork, the gal suggested a "Snark", which is a electronic tuner. Turn it on and clip it to the end of the guitar neck. Play a string/note. It has a lcd dial that lights up with the note it recognizes,and whether it is flat or sharp and how it stays on long enough to allow to adjust the pitch without having to strum the string every second. 10 seconds at most to do all six strings. $15/device.

As far reading music. I have no problem reading sheet music with traditional Treble/Bass clefs and notes. Now the issue is transferring these notes to positions/fingering on the guitar, which I started doing the w/e.

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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2615
Location: hillbilly heaven

12/17/12 6:16 PM

SPARKY

Cast iron plates yield and so do soundboards. The soundboard is "crowned" like the top of a cello, but much less. It has 200-400 pounds of downbearing on it. Increasing tension/raising pitch means the soundboards yields some and the plate yields some. How much? 30%. Raising pitch 1/2 step (100 cents) yields a net gain of about 70%.

You can slightly overtune at the increased risk of more string breakage, to help get to A440. Most pianos that are this flat get a quick pitch raise tuning and then a slowerr, more careful final tuning in one session. Takes about 90 minutes. Lasts a month or 2 then the next tuning holds pretty well.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17505
Location: Portland, OR

12/17/12 8:14 PM

"Raising pitch 1/2 step (100 cents) yields a net gain of about 70%. "

I would have though a lot less, wow...

I was sure the sound board would, really wondered about the cast. I guess if it was so heavy/rigid it hardly yielded the sound of the instrument might tend to be a bit sterile perhaps.

Sound boards are spruce ?


Last edited by Sparky on 12/18/12 1:16 AM; edited 1 time in total

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Nick Payne
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 2449
Location: Canberra, Australia

12/18/12 12:44 AM


quote:
Raising pitch 1/2 step (100 cents) yields a net gain of about 70%.

Raising the pitch a semitone won't increase the tension as much as that. Tension in a string is proportional to the square of the frequency of the note you get from it. The frequency ratio between two adjacent semitones is 1.06, so the increase in tension if you raise the pitch of a string one semitone will be 1.06 squared, or just over 12%.

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PLee
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 3651
Location: Brooklyn, NY

12/18/12 9:08 AM

Steinway uses Sitka Spruce.

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Andy M-S
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3201
Location: Hamden (greater New Haven) CT

12/18/12 10:35 AM

Sitka

I know it's silly, and it goes to my early guitar purchasing, but no words describing wood have a more musical sound in my head than "Sitka Spruce."

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17505
Location: Portland, OR

12/18/12 11:29 AM

Not silly at all. Spruce is a really stiff wood. It's projection properties [ability o project] is very pronounced.

Note that the best classical guitars are more likely cedar tops. Arguably more musical in than than a bluegrass steel string git. ;) If more musical is interpreted as softer and warmer perhaps. But on an acoustic I think the bracing plays a huge part of this. But of course most good instruments have spruce tops. And the very best ones have a fungal effected variety of spruce, bow instruments anyway.

I am a total wood freak. All my best electric guitars I have made except a few are reclaimed wood as opposed to new growth. Generally at least 50 years old.

Elaine asked me why there was so much wood in the U-Haul when we moved here.
I showed her two billets, one of Sapele and one of Bubinga of less that 30 board feet worth close to $1k. Not counting the 100 board feet of 90 year old black walnut. ;)

Which is why I flipped when I got my oldest son a 1931 Violin in Franklin, TN off craigslist for a B-day a few years back. Acoustic instruments can really benefit from old growth wood and what age affords them in terms of sap evaporation state etc.. This old violin has projection like few others anywhere near the cost range. It needed work but was 95% intact. His #1 out of a few violins.

[Coffee Typing, sorry..]

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Andy M-S
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3201
Location: Hamden (greater New Haven) CT

12/18/12 1:11 PM

There are many good uncaffeinated brands now...

Yeah, all I was saying was I liked the sound of the words, "Sitka Spruce," but you're right. And I have heard some nice cedar-top guitars.

The thing about Stika--when I bought my little Martin, the top was absolutely white . It's amazing how golden it's become over time. And the tone...

Well. It speaks for itself.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17505
Location: Portland, OR

12/18/12 1:22 PM

"It's amazing how golden it's become over time."


Probably the Nitro Cellulose Lacquer mostly...

Less UV protestant additive both years back and in high end instruments staying closer to vintage finish specs maybe ?

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Andy M-S
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3201
Location: Hamden (greater New Haven) CT

12/18/12 1:35 PM

UV

Is a UV protestant significantly different from a UV catholic?

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17505
Location: Portland, OR

12/18/12 1:51 PM

Obviously...

Should looked before I let the speelie checker settle on that word, eh?

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Andy M-S
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3201
Location: Hamden (greater New Haven) CT

12/18/12 1:58 PM

:-)

nm...

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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2615
Location: hillbilly heaven

12/18/12 2:03 PM

For piano soundboards, they prefer 18-24 grain lines per inch. Lesser pianos have lesser grain lines. Of course the high end is solid, lower end is laminated, and a few have other material. Story and Clark used mahogany, and it sounds fine. I've seen some very low end that just look like junk wood.

Nick- I'm talking about 1/2 step being 100 cents. The piano yields 1/3 of this change when raising pitch. In a piano, raising all 220 strings results in a tension increase of around 4000 pounds. The difference betwen 2 notes is the 12th root of 2.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17505
Location: Portland, OR

12/18/12 2:58 PM

I sold a 68 Gibson B15 all mahogany including the top. Was a student model in the day, but are somewhat desirable due to vintage Gibson and decent price range for vintage name brand etc.. I got $600.00 for it to put that in prospective.

I also have had a spruce top B15 [two up in the line] in my hands for a few days from 67, still was a student guitar line.

They sounded totally different, not bad or good. The mahogany top one had a cool distinctive projection I kind of like due to it being different. In a quirky early Muddy Waters kind of way that is hard not to appreciate. Thought I'd share that. ;)

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17505
Location: Portland, OR

12/18/12 3:04 PM

There are many good uncaffeinated brands now...

Just started to try some. Most taste like see though coffee as Dave Stoller's dad would say.

If you have specific suggestions for some that fit outside Mr.Stoller's definition I'd appreciate it.

Picked up a Portland Roasting Coffee brand Vienna decaf the other day that is good. Roast Magazine 2012 roaster of the year on the bag made me try it. It was already ground, which made me almost pass on it, glad I didn't.

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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2615
Location: hillbilly heaven

12/18/12 3:29 PM

Talk about thread drift Sparky.

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Andy M-S
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3201
Location: Hamden (greater New Haven) CT

12/18/12 3:30 PM

'twas a joke

It's the line that a student speaks to a rather hyper professor in Real Genius (one of my favorite films).

Back when I was quitting coffee (successfully for some 25 years) there was something called Maragor Bold (or something like that) that was actually pretty good. I suspect it's long gone.

I'm at the point now where I just enjoy a cup or two a day; it seems to have little effect on me (no headaches or anything when I don't have any for a week). But if I'm going to enjoy it, it's going to be the real thing.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17505
Location: Portland, OR

12/18/12 3:30 PM

Talk about thread drift Sparky


Coffee wore off... back to my usual divergent self?

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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2615
Location: hillbilly heaven

12/18/12 6:26 PM

The piano industry used Adirondack spruce in the first half of the 1900's, but they seem to have shifted toward Alaskan spruce. Maybe theres not much Adirondack left..??

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Nick Payne
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 2449
Location: Canberra, Australia

12/18/12 7:44 PM


quote:
Nick- I'm talking about 1/2 step being 100 cents. The piano yields 1/3 of this change when raising pitch. In a piano, raising all 220 strings results in a tension increase of around 4000 pounds. The difference betwen 2 notes is the 12th root of 2.

The total string tension in a piano is somewhere around 20 tons (slightly less for an upright and slightly more for a grand). A tension increase of 4000 pounds is about 9% of that, which isn't far off the value I quoted based on the string formula for frequency vs tension.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17505
Location: Portland, OR

12/24/12 1:51 PM

Bill, how goes the finger tips ?

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17505
Location: Portland, OR

12/29/12 8:50 PM

I got a nice barely used x-mas guitar too.

Godin 5th Avenue II Jazz style git box.

<img src="http://coupekiss.host-ed.me/images/tdpri/5thAve-Burg.jpg" /img>

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Andy M-S
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3201
Location: Hamden (greater New Haven) CT

12/30/12 5:07 AM

nice!

Very nice instrument!

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17505
Location: Portland, OR

12/30/12 9:27 AM

Stuck some flat wounds on it last night, seems like they just belong. The Godins are made in Canada, as is the Seagull S12+ 12 string I also got on the same trade for a US Telecaster I was not bonding with.

I am curious to see what Canadian made instruments has to offer 1st hand. I have been saying these are worth a look just from reading reviews and the build stats for a while now.

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Andy M-S
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3201
Location: Hamden (greater New Haven) CT

12/30/12 3:22 PM

Well...

If it sounds half as good as it looks, you've got a deal there, eh?

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