1/11/24 3:01 PM

We occasionally discuss FTP (Functional Threshold Power) tests and the like. With my new Wahoo trainer workouts are based on %s of FTP (as are many types of workouts), so it's helpful to have one. I did a few FTP tests years ago when in better shape, but I now am not interested in the standard FTP test of 20 minutes flat out.

So I tried Wahoo's "easy" test, colorfully named the "Half Monty" (the more serious test is the "Full Frontal" which I will pass on).

The Half Monty has 2 parts: a ramp of one minute steps at increasing power, which you ride until you can no longer hold the power; followed (after some recovery) by 20 minutes below FTP, keeping your heart rate in a range they calculate based on the ramp results. The 20 minute data is used to "fine tune" the FTP value they calculate based on the ramp results. They couldn't use the 20 minute data in my test last night because you need to shift the trainer from ergo to level mode before starting the 20 minutes, and I took too much time to do that as I thought the software would do it automatically and then had to figure out how to do it manually. But I rode most of the 20 minutes in the prescribed range and got a flavor of it, and they calculated an "unrefined" value. Fair enough, next time I'll do it right.

They also calculate Maximum Aerobic Power (MAP) (what you can hold for 5 minutes).

Anyway, this test is much less onerous than a standard FTP test (I can actually look forward to doing another one). I can't vouch for accuracy but the value I got seems reasonable based on my past values (don't ask the value, that's on a need to know basis and no one here needs to know:)

Obviously if you need precision for lofty training goals you can do a standard test, or the Full Frontal (which looks to be a total hour of hell).

But for the less serious, like me, this appears a way of getting a probably reasonable value without killing yourself.

1/11/24 5:12 PM

Not like you are racing and training for peak. None the less it is good to have your baseline. Even if wider range of +/- then more accurate effort to test.

I still just keep my FTP on the computrainer @ 200. Last 10 minutes I keep tapping the bar controller lower for cool down. The other thing I do is tweak the sliders to manage time in the bigger zones. Until I get in better shape and can do higher zone windows. Adjust so more of 4 is longer times in 2 and 3.

15 years ago I kept FTP at 260 to 290. I probably used to over do it. Once in a while in August I hop on and pop it to 300. For sheits and giggles, and lactic acid...

I know I can't ride with fit 45 year olds on rocket rides anymore. And I don't want to even try to take time it would take to get and keep that level if even possible @ 66. Just love rolling. ;)

Thanks for sharing for sure...

Last edited by Sparky on 1/12/24 10:48 AM; edited 1 time in total

1/12/24 7:13 AM

Yeah I'm not training for anything competitive but I'd like to try some relatively challenging rides next year, like the Copper Triangle I mentioned, and I know from past experience that structured indoor training can help with that.
BTW, 66 is young....

1/12/24 11:02 AM

"BTW, 66 is young...."


Context. As in riding rocket rides with 45 year olds that are fit like when I was this age.

Actually, one of the reasons I stopped group rides is age. Not mine as much as others. I was seeing a lot of poor decisions getting made in the name of vanity and attempting to ride like 45 still.

The group I rode with started loosing riders too frequently to ambulance ride, usually from this 'syndrome'.

Last straw for me was right after a longer FTP straight away. We front 3 made the right and the guys we opened a gap on were more concerned about closing it than slowing for the conditions. The ambiguity of the left turn after the right caused bad dump. I was 3rd and 2nd plowed into 1st. 2nd went down hard and literally 4th and 5th each skid past me at speed, one left and one right. Good avoidance skills of 4/5, but I could not stop considering how I might have been plowed into over.

That is just one example. I so miss the fun of dicing it up with the faster paces and riders. And I suppose 20 years ago I avoided being close to a handful rider with all the paceline riding back then. I digress.

1/12/24 4:27 PM

The Tacx Neo facebook page was chock full of complaints about its low power output reading when I first started back in 2015. The original version read very conservative watt output and there were daily posts about how the trainer read lower watts than their pedals/crank/other system they had. People actually sold them because they felt at a disadvantage on Zwift due to lower reading.

Some people even switch to dumb trainers because they can tweak the calibration/speed measuring stuff to make them faster on Zwift.

Cheating/weight doping is a real problem on Zwift.

I think when Tacx released the Meo 2, 2SE and 2T they upped the power readings because I don't see these posts anymore. They were daily on the original Neo like mine.

1/13/24 9:42 AM

Well I'm not on Zwift, and I don't have any other power measuring device, but I think I've read that the Bike Shift's readings are fairly consistent with other devices.

Dan's reference to Tackx trainers and weight doping bring back some fond memories. Many years ago we did Thursday night trainer tts in winter at the LBS, on Tackx trainer stands. 5 miles (which is a brutal distance to ride flat out). The trainers just computed speed and distance from power, there was no weight correction. That worked substantially to my advantage....:)

1/13/24 10:27 AM

I wonder how long I can milk my computrainer set up.

I was down to one good controller, but someone on PL scraping his sent his to me for shipping. So I have another backup and still have a load gen backup. I bought a pair when I got here.

I have the luxury of not having it in the house. So as nice as the contemporary trainers meld with modern decor, out back in office section of shop isn't exactly decorated. Unless guitar body/neck/other parts on shelves counts as decor.

The SS bike on it has not been off the trainer for several years.

Last update was I ran a CAT6 cable in the ground for the internet. Loosing the wireless 90' distance to the steel Faraday cage for a building. Had a wire USB dongle outside the door jamb.

How many if you guy had CTs and how long ago did you get ride of them?

1/26/24 3:52 PM

Careful what you wish for. I did another fitness test resulting in higher values, which makes me feel good about myself :) but makes the workouts harder. i did one workout which at the beginning I didn't think I'd get through, but felt slightly better as i went along and managed to finish. Which I guess means the fitness values are about right.

So with an eye toward the Copper Triangle ride, I set up a Mountain Fondo training plan, including rudimentary yoga and weight work. It's interesting, today did a Cadence Build workout, spinning up to max cadence (154 in my case). I think the main value is just getting me to do stuff.

And with my renewed ambition, just ordered another bike, Breadwinner A-Road, clearance for 40mm. Love my G-Road, this will be less of a commuter/errand bike (no fenders, generator, etc.), should be great for long road/light gravel. They have stock sizes, should have it in 6 weeks.

So if nothing else my new trainer got me to spend more $.

1/26/24 5:07 PM

quote:

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renewed ambition, just ordered another bike, Breadwinner A-Road

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1/26/24 7:01 PM

Dan, I was getting really concerned that even "easy" trainer workouts were killing me. Then I checked my setup in Rouvy and discovered that after a software upgrade, it had set my FTP at 200! Like there's anyone in the world with an FTP of 200.

I dropped it down to 150 (just a guess based on my max of 180) and now I don't feel like an invalid on easy rides, just on the hard ones.

1/26/24 9:30 PM

Should I be happy my FTP setting on my computrainer is 200? I lower it for cool down, 140-150, else my HR doesn't fall. ;)

Is this age related? I feel younger suddenly. :)

1/27/24 11:13 AM

I think theres a lot of variation in different devices. Changing the number on a known device should be the gold standard for power output. Riding a tacx neo original is a humbling experience. Many were sold due to rading lower than other power meters ( pedals and crank based that read 50 watts higher.)

1/27/24 12:01 PM

Brian, are you talking hr at FTP, not watts? I take that from your reference to 180 max. I think FTPs in the peloton are around 400 (watts).

Met my match today - low cadence (60) tempo - yuck.

1/27/24 7:53 PM

Yes, HR at FTP, though now I wonder what the setting on my Neo is (probably watts). Given how feeble I am these days, my HR and power at FTP are likely both around 150.
As for the accuracy of the Neo, I have nothing to compare it to. It's my only power meter.