7/26/23 7:05 AM

I had yet another ride interrupted/ended by issues with the Campy drivetrain. I have ridden Campy exclusively for a long time but this EPS v4 group is complete trash.

It has never met expectations and has worked well maybe 5 rides. Other than that it's been a massive pain in my arse. I've had to zero and re-zero literally dozens of times. Constant mis-shifts, double shifts, etc.

There have also been major malfunctions like this morning. Suddenly the rear mech would not shift into the bottom 4 cogs. As I was in the middle of a threshold tolerance workout, that ended today’s ride. Nothing I could do on the road helped and even trying to do an on the fly adjustment via the shift levers did not help. When I got back to the hill going up to my place (1.2mi at ~9.5%) I could not even climb that as the chain was jumping between gears on the top end of the cassette and again, on the fly adjustments to the shifting did nothing.

I'm absolutely done with it. I've sent an email to Carl (to be clear, I do NOT hold Carl or Pursuit responsible for any of this) to see about having Campy replace/refund whatever. If they don't I'm still stripping it off the bike and putting something trustworthy on there. Hundreds of man-hours between me and the LBS mechanics have been spent on this drivetrain, enough is enough.

[EDIT] and all I can say to anyone considering it is- DON'T. Campy mechanical is bombproof and perfect, their electronic stuff appears to be crap.

7/26/23 8:49 AM

That truly sucks.

I've got quite a bit of DI2 Going over here. My biggest complaint is the STi buttons are not easy to feel the difference between them. But I use the remote buttons way more. I've actually put little dots of CA glue on the STi button/lever to feel the switches better. Full finger gloves... Forget it!

My EP Nago has pre 2015 SR Ti/cult 11s, definitely among the most deterministic in operation of anything I've run. But I have a habit of keeping my finger on the paddle, and if you hit the thumb lever with the minutest pressure on the paddle, Campy doesn't like that. So that causes a stalled shift, user error granted.

I also have put Microshift on for winter bikes and even bought a second pair. They are the most tactile and deterministic in operation of anything I've ridden. Not to mention the best $59.00 a pair spent years ago on a Nashbar sale. Elaine's Madone has them too They are the best for shifting late at low RPM under load, something she does too much hitting hills. ;)

7/26/23 9:23 AM

quote:

---

My biggest complaint is the STi buttons are not easy to feel the difference between them.

---

7/26/23 9:57 AM

Carl said he'll send me a Red group and try to get reimbursed from Campy. Can't beat that level of customer service. Everyone go order a Pursuit right now, lol

7/26/23 10:43 AM

I'd be happy to do more business with Carl. But in all likelihood all the carbon Disc machines here are on the way out. And even the Ti Helix Road disc. I've come to the conclusion for me much ado...

I still don't buy the ThruAxle need either. Near 20 year old disc Gary Paragon 29er with QRs has never had a wheel move.

I do like the Aesthetic improvement the flat mounts have made admittedly. But Carbon Wheel braking performance has been excellent for a while now. And that is without the noise of some of the ribbed and otherwise embellished brake surface tech of late. Unless you descend mountains I guess, which I don't do... For me, not trying to convert anyone...

I'll put my the Canti Pauls Mini Moto on the Tomii against the Boone Race Shop R8070 everyday of the week. And the 2 sets of Bonty Race Rim calipers, and some R9k series Dura Calipers are killer with a 28" disc. ;)

7/26/23 5:46 PM

Rob, have you tried contacting Campy directly? I'm curious what they'd say and do. I haven't heard complaints like yours elsewhere, so perhaps you just got a defective group.

7/26/23 6:17 PM

They want to deal with the retailer. Tried right after i got the bike, was told to deal through a shop

7/26/23 6:49 PM

So how long is this going to take the beast outta commission?

7/27/23 1:52 PM

Unknown. Looking at options. Carl doesn't have the size crank or BB that I will need so I'm going to buy those. He's sending everything else. Given the situation I'm not even going to ask about an ETA. It'll get here when it gets here, he's being more than fair.

Bike is at the LBS to see if they can do anything. I think the rear mech just shit the bed. I put it in the stand when I got home and even in zero mode it won't move lower than the 5th cog. If the shop can't do anything, then I just wait until the sram bits get here.

7/28/23 12:18 AM

I've never used EPS or Di2, but I have three bikes using eTap (two on the old 11-speed Red eTap, one on a mixture of Force AXS shifters/brakes with Rival AXS derailleurs), and I've never had any problem with any of them.

7/28/23 5:22 AM

" I think the rear mech just shit the bed. I put it in the stand when I got home and even in zero mode it won't move lower than the 5th cog."

It definitely sounds like you've got a defective rear derailleur. It seems a shame to trash the entire group for what's likely just one defective piece.

7/28/23 5:30 AM

It's been a litany of ongoing bugs and issues. Carl asked for a summary, this is what I provided-

--

When I first received the bike on 24FEB23 everything appeared in perfect order coming out of the box. However, once I attached the bars, mounted the wheels, and checked the drivetrain the derailleurs would not shift. I put the unit on charge but it was already charged. I then spent a lot of time watching videos, researching, etc to sort the issue to no avail. I could not put the unit into maintenance or zero mode and the lights indicated an error code.

After a week or more of failure I took the bike to my local shop and it was approximately another month of working directly with the Campagnolo rep, eventually replacing the rear derailleur, complete wiring harness, and interface module, before it would get to basic functionality. The problem was never truly solved to a point of understanding what was actually malfunctioning, rather the shop told me they just found a configuration that seemed to work.

After this the rear derailleur would experience what I will call "zero drift" in that after a period of time I could no longer shift into the smallest cog and shifting to intermediate cogs suffered commensurately. Over the course of several months the unit had to be re-zeroed dozens of times and would only work consistently for 3-4 rides in a row at most. Many rides were interrupted or ended early because of these issues.

I took the bike to the shop often during this period. Neither I nor the shop could ever get the shifting exactly right. There were always "chunky' or loud gears no matter how we zeroed the system. This was usually one to three cogs in the center of the cassette that sounded like they were hopping gears and sometimes were- physical inspection of chain, cassette, derailleur hanger, and chainrings by my shop indicated no problems.

On one occasion the cassette was found to be loose but after re-tightening and re-zeroing the drift returned. I replaced the chain three times this summer just in case.

On multiple occasions in the middle of rides the system would stop shifting or responding to any attempt at input via mode buttons. In most cases this resolved within 30s-3min but in at least two instances lasted for nearly 20mins. After these longer outages when the system became responsive again I checked the battery level with the app (it would not connect whilst the malfunction was occurring) and it was always sufficiently well charged to indicate there was no no power issue.

I live on a steep hill, on multiple occasions I was unable to shift into my largest 2 cogs (limit screw was set properly and verified by shop) for unknown reasons even though it had shifted fine just moments before. This, of course, was a problem on the 17% pitches I encounter coming up my hill and often caused me to have to get off the bike, being unable to turn the larger gear at the hardest points.

The last malfunction was on a flat ride on 26JUL23. I stopped for a 'natural break' after appx 90min of riding where nothing unusual had happened to the bike. As soon as I pulled away the rear derailleur refused to shift lower than the 5th cog. I rode appx 30mi home and this condition remained. I was also unable to use the largest gears on my hill, as the chain was hopping between gears, and ended up walking. I put the bike on the stand and tried to re-zero but the mech still refused to move lower than the 5th cog. It was at this point, and after the months of frustration I’ve just described, that I requested a refund/replacement from Campagnolo.

7/28/23 8:44 AM

I actually had one of my very few Di2 issues yesterday.

Low is 34/34 and it does not get visited very often, except... well you know..

The bike when I shifted to 34/34 would up-shift by itself after a few seconds. Which when you are using the lowest gear sucks.

I had put 11-34 11s cassette on the 10s FHB Zipp 303. I like that cassette both for the 34t and the dish of the carrier with the big cogs allows this to work un-retiring 10s FHB wheels.

I trimmed/centered chain on cogs, but the low stop needed to be let out a touch. RD in low was hitting the stop and the system protects itself. I could hear it actually shift, the servo noise gives it away.

So user error, but easy fix.

Another time early on 1st Di2 install I bunny hopped a big [wider than expected] road speed bump when tired. I hit back wheel and landed heavy enough on the front the STi slipped. Note to self, do let the e-tube wire loop get taped down with the tape you use to secure wires/cable under the tape wrap. ;) Stuck in big gear, could not get the wire to plug back in, rode home in big gear. Never having that happen again.


So user error, but easy fix. See the trend? ;O

7/28/23 6:12 PM

Parts should be here next week. Carl is the man.

7/28/23 6:49 PM

Always was. 3 customs form him over 20 years, and I'd always start there first. But be isn't doing metal anymore, which I consider a plain shame...

7/30/23 8:58 AM

quote:

---

But be isn't doing metal anymore, which I consider a plain shame...

---

7/30/23 2:12 PM

"Yes...but...the carbon frames are pretty amazing"

Indeed, outmoded certainly realistically. And I got a few already and not looking for a new one. And being my 2 fav road bikes are rim brake this suits me fine. Nago Extreme Power SR 11s, and RaceShop SRL Domane Di2. Carbon wheels to boot, so cognizant. ;)

I am going to stick with Custom Steel [Tomii] Canti CX for gravel. Although the Boone is Hydro Disc, and if it does not get sold for at least break even, well I got a carbon disc Gravel bike with 40x700 already. ;)

I have zero argument for why any frame other than carbon offers better advantage in any aspect. Especially not with the weight entered into the equation..