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Koppenbergcross
 

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Nick Payne
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 2625
Location: Canberra, Australia

11/1/21 8:52 PM

Koppenbergcross

Well worth watching - windy, raining, wet, muddy, and multiple ascents of the Koppenberg, with the finish line at the top of the final ascent. Several riders fell off their bikes as they finished because they were so knackered that they couldn't dismount.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

11/2/21 8:11 PM

Tiz has it FYI.

https://tiz-cycling.io/video/x%c2%b2o-badkamers-trophy-2022-1-koppenbergcross-full-race/


Surprisingly lightly populated field...

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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2815
Location: hillbilly heaven

11/3/21 1:05 PM

I get playbeck error when i hit the link. Do i need to create an account or something?

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

11/3/21 3:56 PM

It works usually, 1st shot for me. But not always. I come back later and try it again..

Last edited by Sparky on 11/3/21 4:34 PM; edited 1 time in total

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6884
Location: Maine

11/3/21 4:27 PM

Too knackered to dismount

That’s an interesting phenomenon. I’ve several times seen riders collapse after crossing the line in tts. I vividly remember Fignon doing so at the famous tt where he lost the TdF to LeMond, who used aerobars.

I’ve never done it on a bike, but I recall collapsing crossing the line in a self-imposed tt speedskating on the river. I think it results from focusing every fiber on getting across the finish line as fast as possible at the end of an endurance event. Then your body kind of releases.

Now I’d never do it as I’ve proved several time in the past few years that when I fall now I usually break something.


Last edited by dan emery on 11/3/21 5:47 PM; edited 1 time in total

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

11/3/21 4:36 PM

My 1st MTN bike race, I just toppled over and lay there.. To my surprise I was fine in about 2 minutes once I overcame zone 7 HR.

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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 3234
Location: Midland, MI

11/5/21 8:43 AM

Fake news


quote:
I vividly remember Fignon doing so at the famous tt where he lost the TdF to LeMond, who used aerobars.


I vividly remember that scene as well, and every time I see it all I can think is that he was faking it to avoid the press scrum. When you roll to a stop on a road bike, you slump over the bars. You don't jump off and lie on the ground. After you've caught your breath then you gingerly climb off and sit or lie down. Fignon was faking it. You heard it here first! :)

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dddd
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3345
Location: NorCal

11/20/21 12:48 PM

That ride was no walk in the park, so I'd say somewhere between faking it and feeling it, seemed like the right thing to do(?).

Going off-topic, Trek notoriously built homologation-special frames (known as Koppenbergs) for their larger/stronger riders on the Segafredo team of the mid 20-teens years.
These came from only four molds, 56cm and up, and my understanding is that small numbers (hundreds) of these were sold to the public as required by UCI rules (as frames-only).

It's a weird frameset.

The geometry, including short wheelbase, was taken from the Emonda.
The frame structure was more burly than even any of the Domane models (though Trek put bold "Domane" lettering on the top tube since the frames featured their Domane's seat cluster pivot).

The sturdy fork was taken from the Domane but with odd, rear-sweeping dropouts glued on (to suit the frame's steep HT angle).

The right-rear dropout/hanger wasn't replaceable, but consisted of thick, deep-rooted stainless-steel plate that was intended to allow a crashed rider to resume riding immediately.

I ended up with a suitably-sized 56cm frame as part of a "bike without wheels" steal of a deal. It was built up with SRAM RED even though one of the team's sponsors (Shimano) was quite boldly emblazoned on the frame under the clear coat in three places (LOL).

I'm not sure how many riders that these stiff frames kept from falling off of their bikes going up the Koppenberg, but the frame is unusual in it's ability to make the fastest sharp turns feel like they can be taken much faster (much, much faster than I dare). The feeling is felt more as one exits the turn, like "why did I bother slowing for THAT".
So it betrays my lack of skill enough for me to seriously doubt my abilities, especially if I've been riding different bikes on preceding rides.
And yeah, it does cushion bumps while supporting one's wildest sprints and hill-attacks.

What think y'all, beautiful or ugly?

[/i]

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

11/20/21 1:28 PM


quote:
homologation-special frames (known as Koppenbergs)


Or the original Race Shop the Domane Classics.




quote:
What think y'all, beautiful or ugly?


I don't care for the Red Sega colorway, but that bike ain't about the color. These get a beauty vote from me even in the Red Colorway. But I have strong Prejudice for all the Race Shop stuff.




quote:
make the fastest sharp turns feel like they can be taken much faster (much, much faster than I dare)


The Classics I prefer, a Emonda/Madone geometry Domane not my choice. Got that covered with the 2015 Madone I don't seem to ride very much.

Re: front end, the Classic not as steep/fast. And my fav part of it. 72.8 HTA with 53mm rake putting trail at 51-2mm depending on tire beef.

The Kop is RR geom all the way. My Classic WB is 104.5 CM, Kop in a 56CM is 98.3CM. Lori VS Ferrari pretty much. I bet it turns in hard and fast.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6884
Location: Maine

11/20/21 1:39 PM

Beauty

I’v got a Domane Segafredo RSL (Race Shop Limited) which I love, same red. Among it’s many virtues is not quick handling, it’s slower than my RS (Richard Sachs). With 32 Stampede Pass Extralights, rides great on dirt roads as well.

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dddd
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3345
Location: NorCal

11/20/21 2:21 PM

Gotta admit I was smitten by this bike's looks at least a year before I came to care for it. I'm the third owner and the original owner was a long-retired Olympic RR nominee (the year that it got boycotted, 1980 perhaps?).

Race Shop Domane's were special in that they were made of higher-grade carbon and had slightly different geo than the regular one, or so I've assumed all these years.
Some have confused the Race Shop with the Koppenberg, since both have added team graphics I think. But the huge wheelbase difference Bob mentioned is the tell.

I seem to be limited to 26mm tires on mine.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6884
Location: Maine

11/20/21 2:31 PM

RSLs

The RSL’s geometry is quite a bit different from the regular Domane, but not like the Koppenberg. I was inspired to get it after doing a 2 day group ride led by Jens Voigt. OK, he had a Madone, but same paint job. I wouldn’t want bars any lower than my 58 RSL with all the headset spacers.

I have SRAM e-tap on mine and the 32 Stampede Pass just fit within the calipers. BTW, love those brakes.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

11/20/21 2:51 PM

Dan, yours has same front end as mine where-as the Kop is exact same geom as an H1 Emonda&Madone, Short steep low and fast.

Ours are in between that and Endurance Domane H2 with some extra CS&WB thrown in. Sans the nose bleed Stack.

My 62CM has a H1 Headtube, 186mm VS 245mm on the endurance 62. I got a nose bleed just typing that.

Being I have Dan's pic from the orig posting on my server:




And the 2019 pic adorned with some fatter tires




And the DoMonster. Which is getting a winter tire side-grade. Schwalbe 0-One HT Evolution Speed 30mm Tubulars. They need more words in the designation, not!

Not having RR geom for riding lottsa solo rando type jaunts/use, the Lorry it is shines, and is a 1st pick often for me. Just look at the bar tape, winding it backward doesn't help either...

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dddd
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3345
Location: NorCal

11/20/21 5:05 PM

Yeah, that's as different from mine as...

I'm feeling the 30mm envy, though in actuality I was getting by even on 23's for a time.

25's is actually my preferred tire, roads having improved here in the foothills during the 20 years I've been here.
It helps if it's a decent tire of course (my Holdsworth feels plush on old Tri Comps I swear).

I get the nose-bleed occasionally, previous owners having apparently Bobbitted my H1 steer tube along the way.
Some acclimatization/adaptation was in order for my 60-yr-old carcass, and which keeps me aero on those annual Fondos.

Having stated the obvious, my preferred day-to-day (spirited riding) ride would have to be my Colnago CX-Zero with it's taller headtube, shorter TT and 72.5 HTA.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

11/20/21 6:43 PM

I got 28s on my Nago EP. ;) The HutchyFusion5 just make it, and are light tires too. Actually they make it with a bit of breathing room. When I 1st built that up I has 28 GP5k TL Contis. But did not wanna take a chance taking any WX02 Nago paint off anywhere.

So the spirited riding particularly short up accelerations makes me appear way better going up that I actually am. ;) Not too terrible on longer climbs as long as the initial accel is not too much of an over reach.

I suspect me on a 62CM beast on 30s @ 211 lb. is more akin to you on that itty bitty bike with 25 anyway, I got what 40-50 lbs on you??

Question is what do you find PSi wise in 25s for what body weight? I seldom go over 80-5 in anything except the 28m Carbon Tufo tubs on the Roubaix in an effort to lower CRR a bit.

Yes, I am really doing lots of tubulars last 2 seasons.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5096
Location: Nashua, NH

11/21/21 11:35 AM

That Koppenenberg is an interesting bike, but I can't get past the feeling that someone glued the fork dropouts on backwards, then called it a feature. ;-)

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

11/21/21 5:32 PM

"can't get past the feeling that someone glued the fork dropouts on backwards, then called it a feature. "

The way I figure it, it is not a feature, Just cheapest way to have different rake forks pretty much. Without having to do more than alter the dropout tip for more rake.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5096
Location: Nashua, NH

11/22/21 8:39 AM

That makes sense, but I can still here the builder saying "Ummm...yeah, I meant to do that." ;-)

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