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Tubeless dynamics
 

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6402
Location: Maine

6/10/20 1:16 PM

Tubeless dynamics

I have one set of tubeless tires which came with my Checkpoint, so I hadnít messed with them. I hadnít refreshed the goop, and it had been over a year, which I know is too long.

A couple weeks ago when I went to ride I noticed the rear tire was low - not totally flat but low enough that I didnít want to ride on it. Not wanting to deal with it at the time, I inflated the tire and took another bike. It held air for a few days so I rode it, no problem. Then about 2 weeks later the same thing happened. Then once more after that. I never had a problem on the road.

I figured maybe it had one or more small leaks and then the sealant sealed up - not instantly, but before it went totally flat. Does that sound reasonable?

Anyway, I just shot in some more Stanís goop, which was easy enough.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17797
Location: Portland, OR

6/10/20 1:23 PM

If the tires are Tubeless Ready and not strictly 'Tubeless' my experience is a lot of laying/flipping on each side after initial and refreshes make thing seal up better faster longer.

Most are Tubeless ready. I only have used 2 set that are tubeless period. They are heavy tires, so marketing seems to have caused some order of weighting things... ;)

If the tire is 50 grams heavy before sealant, but the other light 'tubeless ready' needs an extra 50 grams of sealant.

The one that is lighterer will sell more fasterer....

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4652
Location: Nashua, NH

6/10/20 7:32 PM

Dan, I've had the same thing happen when the sealant is due for replenishment. You've probably got a thorn puncture or something that the old sealant can't handle. If you sloshed the new stuff around well, it should find the hole and plug it.

Some "tubeless ready" tires have pretty porous casings that will constantly spring new, tiny leaks that the sealant will plug. The Schwalbe Rocket Rons I have on my hardtail are like that. Every time I look at them, there are little wet spots where tiny leaks have occurred, then sealed. But, at least they're light!

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17797
Location: Portland, OR

6/12/20 2:23 PM

On a separate 'tubeless' note. I got some NIB XTR CX Tubular Thru Axle disc wheels, landed UPS this morning. Smoking deal form a CX racer that never used them.

I intend to soiree back into tubulars with the new tubeless tubular tech with sealant approach. 30mm Gravel Challange Stradas planned.

Instead of a spare tire with, Dynaplug Bicycle Tubeless Tire Repair Plugs with.

I hope it ends well, better than the last tubed sewup/sealant attempt. Fingers CXed

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4652
Location: Nashua, NH

6/12/20 7:43 PM

What was the issue with regular tubulars? I used them successfully with sealant for years, before finally converting to clinchers.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17797
Location: Portland, OR

6/12/20 8:04 PM

A chuck of glass 8 miles out on a new tire. Wouldn't seal.

But I think the tire size then, and misconception of earlier days of stupid high pressures was causal. But I gave in and sold it all off with the Colnago in 2015. The Colnago that came back as a frameset in 2018.

I will be doing 30mm with a lot lower pressures. But I had convinced myself the sealant in the tubulars would be fairly flat resistant, dare I say proof. I also weight a lot less now which may make matters better.

What precipitated your ending use?

Also, I do not think I'd be OK with 30mm on the 18-19 wide rims I used back when/then. These are fatter for fatter tires, CX wheels after all. 26.4mm wide.

Your thoughts?

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4652
Location: Nashua, NH

6/13/20 4:25 AM

I switched to clinchers after buying a cross bike that had them, then throwing some road tires on it just for laughs. I was immediately impressed with how round they were compared to tubulars and how smooth they felt on the road. That, combined with the fact that lightweight aluminum tubular rims don't exist anymore convinced me to switch. Why bother with the hassle of gluing when clinchers are more consistent, faster rolling and the overall package is as light or lighter?

I actually ran fat 'cross tubulars on some wheels I set up for the Mount Washington auto road back in the late '70s. Believe it or not, I still have the tires, but the wheels are long gone (rims trashed in a racing crash).

The only tubulars I have to deal with these days are Linda 'cross race wheels, which are Baby Limus tires on Zipp 303s. The combination you're looking at should work fine.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17797
Location: Portland, OR

6/13/20 9:55 AM

The bike has base Lynskey Vision 30mm alloy disc wheels I got for 120.00 pulls. I needed the XTR 29er clincher set back on something dirt oriented.

So those VERY heavy wheels with Ritchey Alpine JB with latex on there now. I did a fast 30 on them yesterday being mindful to wait for them to roll rather than trying to accelerate purposefully. Point being that is a lot of rotational weight/mass VS even the 29er wheels with Pro 4 SC tires.

So this new setup, I expect the tires to be comparable to the 30mm JB with latex in the rotating mass dept. Maybe very near same with sealant. But the rear difference will be 30mm alloy rims VS the low profile carbon tubular rims. That XTR CX wheels are 1350 VS the Vision 30mm wheel I am surprised I even used after I weighed them. ;)

The CX tubulars are 750 grams lighter, a lot of that rim rotational I suspect.

I expect the main net will be they will accelerate wasting less energy and be better if going up in a noticeable fashion. And hope to net the sublime ride of the 30mm tubular.

Should mention the Alpine JB tires on 30mm alloy rims with Latex tubes was an improvement in ride quality over the low profile Pacenti XTR wheels with Pro 4 SC tires/latex tubes, and only 2mm fatter most. FWIW. Unexpected to me frankly.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6402
Location: Maine

6/13/20 3:05 PM

ďHow round they were compared to tubularsĒ

I also rode tubulars exclusively on my road bikes for many years.

This comment brings back fond (Not!) memories of trying to get the hop out of Sprinters and Wobblers, particularly. Tick..tick..tick..tick...(expletives deleted)

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4652
Location: Nashua, NH

6/13/20 7:07 PM

Exactly. I remember how psyched I was whenever I got one with less than 2mm or so of hop. OTOH, clinchers are nearly perfect every time. I didn't realize how the small hop affected the ride until it wasn't there anymore. The ride smoothness of clinchers was definitely a revelation, and one of the reasons I switched. I had been a die-hard tubular guy for 36 years and it had been so long since I had ridden clinchers, that I simply didn't know how good they had become over the years. I was won over quickly, really after a single ride.

TUBULAR UPDATE:
I guess I'm not quite as out of the woods regarding tubulars at I thought. Linda is considering getting back into triathlons, and we spent the morning rehabbing her TT bike, which has Zipp 650c tubies. Oh joy!

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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 3063
Location: Midland, MI

6/15/20 10:38 AM

Revelations, chapter 1


quote:
The ride smoothness of clinchers was definitely a revelation,


Apparently you haven't been frequenting the right bike forums, because to hear some people tell it, the ride of tubulars is a revelation. It's obvious that I can sleep on a mattress with a pea under it, because I never really noticed a big difference when I switched to high performance clinchers in the late 90s. BTW, I rode Vittoria tubulars pretty exclusively and found that if I pulled hard on the tire both sides of the valve as I mounted it, I didn't really have much of a bump problem.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17797
Location: Portland, OR

6/15/20 11:16 AM

Just a note; The Gran Prix 5K TL 28s I just mounted up went on 5x as easy as the old Schwalb ones came off...

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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2656
Location: hillbilly heaven

6/15/20 4:36 PM

Last week I mounted some non tubeless tires on some old school non tubeless rims. I thought something was wrong. They were so easy to mount I said this can't be right.

Tubeless has degraded my life.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4652
Location: Nashua, NH

6/15/20 8:24 PM

Kerry, I'm becoming more and more convinced that most riders feel whatever they expect to feel and the more money they spend on something, the more adamant they are that it makes a huge improvement. Perhaps some of the riders you mentioned were going from heavy clinchers to light tubulars and the difference really was there. Who knows?

Speaking of "The Princess and the Pea", on another forum, I've got some chucklehead trying to tell me that he can feel a fraction of a millimeter difference in vertical rim flex when riding 40mm gravel tires. There are apparently no limits to what some people can convince themselves to believe.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17797
Location: Portland, OR

6/15/20 8:36 PM

"most riders feel whatever they expect to feel"


I guess I am not most. ;) When I put the 30mm Alloy disc rims on the Helix with tire I expected to be hard riding the exact opposite occurred.

Usually my minds eye has already convinced me the net effect will be greater than it usually turns out to be.

Actually I expected that Helix to be too stiff and I am liking a lot about rolling on it. Disc bike pork not being being among the attribute in the like dept. But I expected it to weigh what it does.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4652
Location: Nashua, NH

6/16/20 6:25 AM

I like to think of myself as open-minded when it comes to testing new equipment, though I'm sure I have my own preconceived notions.

The whole tubular/clincher thing was a real surprise as I fully expected to be underwhelmed by the performance of clinchers, in that case, 28mm Conti GP 4-Seasons on my Pinerello 'cross bike. To say I was stunned by how nice they felt is an understatement. They were fat (for that time), general-purpose tires, but they were so smooth I couldn't believe it. It was one of those moments that you know that a tectonic shift in your thinking is about to occur.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17797
Location: Portland, OR

6/16/20 8:11 PM

Ordered up some 30mm tubeless tubulars as planned. Challenge Strada Bianca from Sigma @ 82.00 each.

Thought about trying tubular gluing tape after some good review, until I saw the cost per wheel. And the point of dealing with the tape for a tire swap. So Mastik it is, like in the olden daze. ;)

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