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Don't get above your trainin'
 

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6312
Location: Maine

10/1/19 2:54 PM

Don't get above your trainin'

Kind of a variation on the last episode of the Country Music series, "Don't get above your Raisin'."

Rode the Dempsey Challenge Century Sunday, after not having ridden more than about 33 miles in 2 years (since I began breaking bones and having other medical issues). And after having a few drinks at a fundraiser the night before.

I think those factors combined to put me under. I finished, but had to walk the last hill (miles 85-95 were a succession of hills, and at that point I had nothin'). At the finish I was nauseous and apparently looked so crappy that Patrick himself asked me if I was OK. On the drive home I puked in the car. When I got out of the car I had to stand a few minutes with legs cramps before hobbling into the house.

I think the drinks (not excessive, no hangover or even close) along with the unaccustomed effort contributed to dehydration which did me in. I drank and ate as much as I could, but mostly my stomach didn't want it.

But anyway I was glad to finish and glad I made the effort as I have opted out of a couple events. But next time I will ride more if I'm going to do a century (and limit the libations the night before).

I thought I'd be a wreck the next day but I actually have felt great.

One cyclist who is a role model is Fast Freddy Rodriguez who is there every year and does tons for kids.

Epic, dude!

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greglepore
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1674
Location: SE Pa, USA

10/2/19 6:51 AM

Man, not much worse than killing yourself like that. I'm still recovering from a training hole I dug myself a season back, and it really is hard not being able to do things that used to be routine.

Training the gut is as hard as training the body.


Last edited by greglepore on 10/2/19 10:53 AM; edited 1 time in total

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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2620
Location: hillbilly heaven

10/2/19 8:51 AM

I never got to the point where I could ride a century with authority. I rode a few but the recovery was brutal for me. if I did one on Sunday, by the following Wednesday I was dysfunctionally tired. All I could do was lay around and sleep. I never got beyond that.

I could rode 65-75 miles with authority, but that last 30 just did me in. I gave up and quit doing centuries.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17552
Location: Portland, OR

10/2/19 10:17 AM

"I rode a few but the recovery was brutal for me. if I did one on Sunday, by the following Wednesday I was dysfunctionally tired."

I once did a 4:17 century, mostly flat granted. It was a freaky day I never repeated. But having done so and that being a bar I wrongly thought was ever going to be a norm... It would have better had it never occurred.

Other than that, another VG 'was that really me' was the 10 hour flat 180 mile we managed on a yearly jaunt. Good group of younger folk I rode with a lot for a few years in Joisey. [#hasbeen] We got efficient in close quarters, etc.

Main point is this, every years 5 or so a day got added to needed recovery for crazy fast metrics, or reasonably fast centuries. Going from memory on centuries, been a century since I did more than 80 miles.

But, if I don't try to FTP the longer rides to feel fast enough to justify actually riding a go fast bike... I can actually ride the next day, or maybe the one after that.

What used to take as little as 4:17 [plus to & fro] probably take 8+ hours adding it the getting to & fro until shower time. #stillfukinridinganyway

As far as getting above your raisin, isn't this what we have been attempting/doing mostly all our riding lives?

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4551
Location: Nashua, NH

10/2/19 6:08 PM

Dan, kudos for gutting it out and finishing, but rotten tomatoes for your planning. I'll bet you never do that again!

I've pretty much come to the conclusion that I need to do longer rides next year in order to increase my endurance, which frankly, sucks. I've been enjoying the bike trips we've been doing, but they're getting harder because I can't handle the back-to-back hard days with the type of "training" I've been doing. Hopefully, longer miles will help with that.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17552
Location: Portland, OR

10/2/19 6:34 PM

Yeah, hats off you lunatic. ;)

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6312
Location: Maine

10/3/19 4:54 AM

Planning?

Whatís that?

Actually I registered awhile ago, maybe when Iíd had too much coffee, and then as I didnít ride as much as Iíd thought, I considered skipping it or riding the 50. It really wasnít until the last weekend that it decided to go ahead with the century. Then I planned to go out slow, warm up, and pick it up a bit if I felt OK. But of course I didnít do that. 😀

Anyway, I learned that at this point, I need to respect the distance.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4551
Location: Nashua, NH

10/3/19 6:15 AM

I definitely hear ya!

One thing I've learned from doing Trek Travel rides over past few years is that it's possible for me to take an extended break (an hour or more) during a long day, eat a substantial lunch and drink quite a bit of water, then get back on the bike and feel great for the remainder of the ride. In one case, I even felt better on the second half of a ride, after bonking horribly on a hard climb up to the lunch stop (I figured I was doomed to suffer for the rest of the day). I haven't tried doing a long lunch break on my own or in an organized century, but I plan to.

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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 3018
Location: Midland, MI

10/3/19 9:16 AM

Planning

While all the "experts" say you need to ride at least one 75 before you do a century, my experience has been that if you are comfortable at the end of a 50, you can do a century without a lot of suffering. Of course there are other factors: wind, heat, humidity, hills, and just the luck of a good day or a bad day.

My experience with "I just don't feel like drinking/eating" is that it means an electrolyte imbalance. Especially for drinking, if you're low on salt you won't be able to drink. Long ago a riding companion was "close to the wall" and we stopped for French fries. He loaded them up with salt and felt 100% better in about 20 minutes. Sometimes folks try to hard to eat the "right" things rather than just going for anything that appeals. Your body (at least my body) is pretty good at telling me "what really sounds good right now" and therefore what I can tolerate and maybe really need.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17552
Location: Portland, OR

10/3/19 9:45 AM

When I did century rides as part of my season, 6 or more per year. My strategy was a early breakfast with lots of calories from fats. A slowish ramp up for 15 miles, then multiple FTP runs and recoveries because fast times always a goal.

I frequently rode the next day or played basketball, volley ball etc. I was 20 years younger though. ;) Carbs on the bike, and back then Citomax including packets of extra powder for my bottles at stops on the ride.

No kidding about the dehydration, your physiology will dive fast at high outputs if you get behind that 8 ball. A bonk is a hard slow thing to fix @ mile 70 on a century, ride at greatly diminished pace and maybe before the end, maybe... if you got the electrolytes on hand that is.

And speaking for myself, worse than any hangover the next day.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6312
Location: Maine

10/3/19 4:08 PM

Next up

I obviously hadnít ridden enough to ride a strong century, but the other factor Iím not sure of is why my stomach wasnít working. I struggled to drink, or eat a peanut butter cracker. When I puked in the car, maybe TMI, but letís just say there was a LOT of fluid. So I think what I ate and drank just sat in my stomach. Maybe the alcohol the night before, maybe electrolytes I dunno (I drank Gatorade, and generally eat plenty of salt).

Anyway, Iím registered for the gravel ride I posted about earlier in the Moosehead Lake area in 2 weeks. A 100k route or a 50k route. The 100 is probably harder than the Dempsey Century, with about the same amount of climbing, on dirt. So, like the Dempsey, Iíve varied between skipping, riding the 50, or the 100. Iím thinking trying the 100 absent the booze, but I reserve the right to change my mind.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17552
Location: Portland, OR

10/3/19 4:51 PM

Guessing: Dempsey Challenge Century=Domane 32mm tires. Moosehead Lake Gravel=Checkpoint??

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6312
Location: Maine

10/4/19 8:14 AM

yes

road for road, gravel for gravel.

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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 3018
Location: Midland, MI

10/5/19 3:44 PM

Salt


quote:
So I think what I ate and drank just sat in my stomach. Maybe the alcohol the night before, maybe electrolytes I dunno (I drank Gatorade, and generally eat plenty of salt).


"Failure to digest" was pretty obviously your problem, but the question is why. Gatorade is actually not that salty, so I still point the finger at electrolytes. If your gut can't transport the liquids because of osmotic pressure problems, salts are often the issue. Then again, it could have just been a day when your gut locked up.

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Anthony Smith
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 844
Location: Ohio

11/7/19 6:50 AM

Disagree

If you fast completely M/W/F during the off season and ride an hour a day--high rpm--not specific intervals, following a winter of weekend sessions of 2-3 hours each day on the bike, you can ride indefinite numbers of centuries, even back to back.

The key is training your body to fire its krebs cycle and continue working.

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dddd
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3285
Location: NorCal

11/8/19 8:25 PM

Well, there's that (periodization). But I'm not going to starve myself as I already weigh 145# @ 5'9".

For me it's usually either the gut, the electrolyte/water shortage or a fuel shortage that might take me out of a long, hard ride.

For the gut, I try not to eat too much before, especially water-bearing or possibly gas-producing fibrous food like too much cereal.
For the water and electrolytes, I skip the plain water, and the salted water helps make me thirsty.
For fuel, I must remember to eat something like a half a Powerbar every hour (or less than an hour as the ride gets longer).

I remember one long ride last summer, I had neglected the fuel and electrolytes a good bit and when a rider in our group wanted to stop and use a quick-mart's bathroom, I went in and asked the woman in charge which was the best hot dog on the grill. She told me which her favorite was, and so the big spicy dog really revived me and got me through the day!

There is no "bonk" like an insufficient-electrolyte bonk! Can you say "cramps"?

Another summer (fast TDF-celebrating Fondo) ride was saved by my taking a detour to a mini-mart and grabbing a ham sandwich and a Coke. The sandwich or dog is guaranteed to have a lot of salt in it.

Things I skip on an organized century are the peanuts or other oily snacks, which seem to cause my stomach not to empty. That and the (too often unwashed) baskets of strawberries and the like. Salted potatoes are the best.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17552
Location: Portland, OR

11/8/19 8:53 PM

Don't forget the banana for desert before washing the cured meat down with last of the real coke. ;)

When I was riding up the 500ft hill in less than a mile, about 48 miles into the 54 mile ride to my house [out/back]. A coke stop, and or coke and chips made a big diff going up that hill.

I don't ride it anymore, I park at the bottom to avoid how bad the traffic has gotten for that 6 mile stretch coming and going. Just add the lost miles in the middle instead...


One year for our 180 mile hammerfest in Aug., I baked red potatoes with salt and pepper and popped one little starch lump every 1/2 hour after 23 miles in. Worked great until hour 9, when bloat got me. I had to stop and release the most gas ever in one poof in my life. I felt great after, except residual gut ache. Never tried that again. Played volley ball on the beach next day and felt great, kicked some other young guys arses. Not bad after a 10 hour 180 miler the day before...

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dddd
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3285
Location: NorCal

11/9/19 6:00 PM

""Failure to digest" was pretty obviously your problem, but the question is why. Gatorade is actually not that salty, so I still point the finger at electrolytes. If your gut can't transport the liquids because of osmotic pressure problems, salts are often the issue. Then again, it could have just been a day when your gut locked up."

That's my understanding, that Gatorade has insufficient sodium as the hours and quarts go by, and is why I think they have a more sports-specific version of Gatorade having more sodium in it.

I look at the labels on gels, noting that some have way more sodium than others. The best ones (with at least 200mg sodium) might fully revive an electrolyte-starved rider in about five minutes!

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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 3018
Location: Midland, MI

11/10/19 9:38 AM

DP

DP ignore.

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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 3018
Location: Midland, MI

11/10/19 9:38 AM

Sodium RDA

And all this time I hear the sodium limit dietary guidelines echoing through the Internet. :)

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6312
Location: Maine

11/10/19 10:15 AM

Salty

I donít think what affected me was something like the wrong sports drink. As I said, Iíve done lots of centuries and harder, not really worrying much about what Iím eating and drinking (other than to do so regularly), and Iíve usually been strongest at the end of the ride. This time my stomach was just off from the beginning. Even at the first stop (34 miles maybe) I had trouble getting stuff down. Some of it has to do with not being in great shape, but I still suspect having a few drinks the night before had something to do with it.

And of course I started too fast, riding the first part a bit above 18mph (not very fast but too fast for me this year in a century). I told myself Iíd start off really slow and pick it up if I felt OK, but of course I didnít do that.

The other time my stomach acted like this was the Don Ferris Death March of 2002, where I puked about 4 gallons of fluid out at the top of Mt. Evans. But that was at 14,000í. I donít remember what I ate or drank the night before but in the company of Anvil, Bill Karow, etc. itís possible I had a couple drinks. But that time I think it was altitude sickness primarily.

Anyway, next century Iíll have more miles in my legs and curtail alcohol the night before. And eat potato chips.

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KerryIrons
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 3018
Location: Midland, MI

11/12/19 9:19 AM

Dog Day Afternoon

It sounds like you started on the back foot and then ended up on your a$$. A conspiracy of bad factors. It's possible this was just not your day and nothing would have helped except to retire to the basement and watch TV in the dark.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17552
Location: Portland, OR

11/12/19 1:02 PM

My August 2018 Century was turned into a Metric for similar reasons. Serves me right for trying to do a century. ;) Not past 80 miles on a ride for a long long time. I am too slow and it takes too long. My 4:15 hour century times left me 20 years ago.

If I had not had a stash of Cal Mags in my pocket, I would have sagged out around mile 55-ish. I had to hop off and chew a few done every 3 mile last 10 of the ride. Watch the squirrels running around under my skin where my quads had been. If the SAG wagon had passed the last two bouts, I'd have really wanted to quit. But I'd crawl on my hands and knees with the bike on my back the last 5 miles before I'd SAG. Stubborn streak a mile wide, for better or worse.

I was a bit disappointed in myself considering all the 'experience' I have. [ahem]
But every once in a while you don't realize just how far behind the 8 ball you are out of the gate.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6312
Location: Maine

11/12/19 2:02 PM

Heels to a$$

Yes that's a pretty good way to put it. But I'm still glad I did the ride and finished, however ingloriously. Sort of "over the hump" (psychological as well as physical) to do some harder rides again.

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