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Dan, how’s your kayak shopping going?
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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6263
Location: Maine

7/26/19 9:11 AM

Moving low brace

It may refer to something like this, a low brace turn done while moving, and in fact after building speed. Tom mentioned a climbing paddle angle several times, which comes in at the end of this technique:

https://paddling.com/learn/low-brace-turn/

I know this is all elementary, but I’m in pre-school!

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17410
Location: Portland, OR

7/26/19 12:24 PM

" but I’m in pre-school!"

I am still chromosomes...

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4471
Location: Nashua, NH

7/26/19 1:01 PM

That may be what Tom meant, but like April, I'm not familiar with the exact term "low moving brace", either. However, "low brace turn" is commonly understood to mean what the article shows, so I suspect that if that's what Tom meant, that's what he would have said. It seems most likely that he's encouraging you to try to learn something about low bracing before going out on "textured" water, as you're probably going to be doing a fair amount of it.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6263
Location: Maine

7/26/19 1:40 PM

yeah

I think he wants me to learn about bracing to lessen the chances I dump the boat, and specifically to brace while moving as opposed to stationary (which is how most videos demonstrate it). I'm guessing movement adds the factor of a climbing blade angle as opposed to just putting the blade down flat. But I'm probably wrong, though I'll find out soon enough. I think we'll be doing this next week.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6263
Location: Maine

8/2/19 4:31 PM

Moving along

Very helpful session today, out with Tom for a bit over 2 hours, learned a lot. One thing, which I think seems to explain some of my previous kayak experience, is that I loosen up over time, so a fit that seemed great when I was cold was way off after I had been out an hour or so. With all my funky leg, knee and back issues, things change. So a cockpit fit that seemed tight at the start was loose after an hour or so. And when it got loose I had no leverage from my legs, which affected my back position and led to back pain. An adjustment mid-paddle made a big difference. Tom thought that after I loosened up, I could push my butt further back, so I had no leg leverage.

That notwithstanding, the paddle was really fun. The thing he liked about me is that I don’t really care about waves (at least what I’ve seen so far). A couple times he said “well, you’re not afraid of waves.” Which I’m not, at least so far (I’m sure there are conditions which will scare me Sh*tless).

We did some surfing, which was fun.

His recommendation is a hybrid Surf which he has in his warehouse, and I am going to look this over on the internet, then if I give him the OK he will pull it and I’ll go out for a fitting session. I could also order a custom one, but that obviously will take longer. I will probably OK this boat. I think the Surf is still probably the right boat, as when I found the Classic to too small last week, it was at the end of the day and I was loosened up.

He thinks foam is probably still better than pegs, but maybe two chunky pieces with the middle open so I can stretch my legs. Plus a need to build up seatback support to keep my pelvis rotated forward. That is also probably a chunk of foam.

I asked Tom about the “inconsistent workmanship” of NDKs that Brian had mentioned, and he said he would be even less polite, but that was a period in the past and the quality was now good. Plus he said he has the say on warranty issues, they have never gone against him.

Tom is an interesting guy. He also does motorcycle racing, cliff diving, stuff like that, plus he used to be a lawyer!

I think maybe next year I will take some of his more intensive courses.

Because of my various issues, I am really glad I am working with him. I think if I had just bought a kayak at a typical store or 1/2 day demo, I could have ended up with something that didn’t work with no idea why. That’s not a criticism of them, just my unique situation.

I’m glad April’s post inspired me to move forward with this, it is really cool. Thanks April!

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4471
Location: Nashua, NH

8/2/19 5:00 PM

Your experience is not all that unusual. If you're not used to paddling, you're using muscles in new ways and it takes time to adapt. Once you're paddling on a reasonably regular basis, the fitting situation will resolve itself.

I'm in the process of getting our boats "ship shape" again, so we can hit the water. I'm expecting to be quite stiff and somewhat uncomfortable until I get back into the swing of things.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17410
Location: Portland, OR

8/2/19 5:03 PM

Considering that IMO it takes a good 10k of road riding from a beginner to evolve to the 'position', Sounds like this may be similar for personal water craft?

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4471
Location: Nashua, NH

8/3/19 9:02 AM

Yes, it's very similar. As I eluded to previously, being a cyclist actually makes it more difficult to paddle initially, due to the short hamstrings that cyclists typically develop. It's also common to experience soreness in your hip flexors from paddling, as well as the more paddling-specific muscles like the abdominals and obliques. I've also had issues with wrist, elbow and shoulder soreness.

It's going to be "interesting" to see what happens when we get back on the water.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6263
Location: Maine

8/3/19 10:33 AM

Pulled the trigger

Agree with Brian that the only way to make progress is to start paddling. I won’t solve anything by watching YouTube videos for 8 months before I get in a boat again. So I will go with the hybrid surf, provided Tom thinks it’s OK after pulling it from the warehouse. Not cheap, but hey, I’m worth it. :)

If you scroll down it’s the blue and yellow surf hybrid.

http://maineislandkayak.com/boat-store/ndks/romany/

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17410
Location: Portland, OR

8/3/19 10:45 AM

" Not cheap, but hey, I’m worth it."

Agree, we say that alot, mostly about food. We are at new seasons picking up 25lb fresh albacore as i type this.

Enjoy that toy, be hard not too pretty much...

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lrzipris
Joined: 04 Mar 2004
Posts: 432
Location: Doylestown, PA

8/3/19 5:00 PM

It may be the different muscles thing Brian is talking about or something mental, but I find a mix of cycling and kayaking quite enjoyable. Some days I see how I feel when I wake up--bike or kayak?

Yes, Dan, enjoy the new toy. Your story about how careful Tom is reminds me of when I bought my first bike as an adult. I was at a highly regarded local shop, and the major fit guy was talking a novice out of a terribly expensive bike--"You don't need all that, why not start with X, then you can always upgrade if you stay with cycling." And it was clear that he was not angling for another sale in the near future. I remember being impressed with his honesty; Tom sounds similar in making sure you get the right boat.


Last edited by lrzipris on 8/4/19 12:37 PM; edited 1 time in total

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4471
Location: Nashua, NH

8/3/19 8:19 PM


quote:
If you scroll down it’s the blue and yellow surf hybrid.

Check with Tom to see if he has any matching gelcoat for that hull. The reason that most kayaks have white hulls is that other colors can be exceedingly hard to match when you have to repair them (trust me, you will). One of my boats has a light gray hull and even than is hard to match.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6263
Location: Maine

8/4/19 5:18 AM

Gelcoat etc.

Thanks Brian, I’ll check the color gelcoat issue. One of Tom’s catch phrases is “gelcoat is a sacrificial layer.” He has others like “kayaking is a core sport” and “kayaking is a deep sport” (when adding seamanship to technique).

Roy, I agree, and Brian has mentioned in the past, that the 2 sports complement each other well. Cyclists of course are known for having no abs or upper body strength....

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 17410
Location: Portland, OR

8/4/19 9:29 AM

"Cyclists of course are known for having no abs or upper body strength"

Only of they stay on he saddle all the time... I find climbing standing quite core building, honking on the bar in sprints also. Both VG isometric upper body building.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6263
Location: Maine

8/7/19 12:21 PM

Fit session

Out on the island for a few hours this morning getting the boat fitted. Quite a process, it definitely now is a custom ride, with custom foam padding on the bulkhead replacing foot pegs, custom thigh and hip pads, and a big chunk of foam replacing the back band. I sat and got in and out of the boat on the lawn while Tom cut various versions of the pads. It felt great at the end and I think particularly the back piece will help as I need some support to sit upright with the pelvis rotated properly. He thought it looked pretty good as in that position I could rock the boat pretty easily with my hips.

I'll get my car rack system set up in a couple days and then meet him in Portland to pick it up. The boat has a compass installed in the front which I think is cool. I'll get a paddle from him and he says just bring it back if you want something else.

He's spent about 10 hours with me at this point, and I doubt there will be any separate charge for that, and he even said he'd discount a bit. I may want to pay him more than I'm charged!

I mentioned Brian and April (not by name) had made some comments and he asked what they paddled, and I said Valleys and that Brian had a Pintail, and he said then Brian would know what he's talking about and I should listen to him...:)

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4471
Location: Nashua, NH

8/8/19 7:13 AM

That's too funny!

Pintails are not considered to be beginner's boats, so I guess he's just assuming a certain level of competence. In my case, that could be dangerous! ;-)

Having done a fair amount of kayak outfitting and running outfitting clinics, I can fully appreciate the service that Tom has provided to you. You've confirmed every good thing I've heard about him. One of these days, I'll have to get up there and spend some time with him.

Speaking of Pintails, I need to repair the deck rigging on mine this week so it's ready for the water. I did our other three 'glass boats last weekend. Now we have no excuses not to paddle, other than that Linda is coming up here Saturday, to do an agility trial with the dog this Sunday, which is an all-day affair. I'll be there shooting photos and video.

I'll be starting a new contract on Monday, but we plan to hit the water next weekend.

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