CYCLINGFORUM.COM - Where Cyclists Talk Tech --- Return To Home

 

    Register FAQ'sSearchProfileLog In / Log Out

 

****

cyclingforum.com ****

HOMECLUBS | SPONSORS | FEATURESPHOTO GALLERYTTF DONORS | SHOP FOR GEAR

Return to CyclingForum Home Page CYCLING TECH TALK FORUM
          View posts since last visit

Does anyone here on the TTF have a Honda Fit?
 Goto page Previous  1, 2

Author Thread Post new topic Reply to topic
Marc N.
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 446
Location: Israel

5/15/18 11:08 PM

Fellow GTO owner

I had a 69 GTO ragtop in navy blue with a white top and interior. Drove it from gas station to gas station. 400 cu., 350 hp and something like 7 miles / gallon. Between the gas and the hooch, I didn`t have a penny to my name.

 Reply to topic     Send e-mail

Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4170
Location: Nashua, NH

5/16/18 5:45 AM

I don't do any hypermiling - much of which seems insane on public roads - but I always exceed the EPA ratings by a fair amount with a manual tranny. My current car is only EPA rated at 32 MPG highway and I regularly average 35-38 (calculated) per tank.

 Reply to topic    

Jesus Saves
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 1131
Location: South of Heaven

5/16/18 8:08 AM

Under normal driving conditions, as in not hyper-mile-ing, a CVT transmission gets better gas mileage than a manual transmission. It's pretty clear that is the case across the board if you do a minute of research.
https://tinyurl.com/ya8dvotg

As I mentioned before, the driving behavior is a little bit different with a CVT. Let me give a more pithy description: driving into work today, accelerating from a stop to cruising speed, my tachometer was pegged at 2,000 rpms. There is no benefit to flooring it as it takes time for the CVT to catch up to the engine.

I rarely crack 4,000 rpms on my small engine ecobox car, and do so only for a short period of time...like with cruise control set and going up a significant pitch on a highway. There is little variation in the rpms in day to day driving...highway or local range from 1,500 - 2,500 rpms. That is not the case when I drive an automatic, and of course definitely not so with a manual shift tranny.

The one drawback with CVTs is that they are expensive to repair. My knowledge with Nissan ones is that they don't get repaired, they get replaced, which is costly $$$. If you take good care of the car that is unlikely to be an issue (fingers crossed). With that in mind, there's more preventative maintenance, like changing the CVT fluid at 60,000 mile intervals or 30,000 miles for harsher driving (hot climate or towing) - for Nissan at least. It costs ~$250 for a fluid change; the relatively high expense is that the CVT fluid costs at least $20 per quart x 5/6 quarts necessary for each change.

 Reply to topic    

Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16738
Location: Portland, OR

5/16/18 9:48 AM

I plan to to follow the HD service schedule for fluid rejuvenation even though we won't be using either CVT to tow or HD use.

 Reply to topic     Send e-mail

Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4170
Location: Nashua, NH

5/16/18 11:16 AM

Without identical vehicles to compare, it's difficult to say which would give me better mileage. Linda has a CVT in her Outback, but my car should be good for at least another 5 years, so I'm not likely to ever do a direct comparison.

The other reason that I prefer manuals is they give me much better control in winter driving (at least once I disable the anti-lock brakes and traction control, which are just plain dangerous on snow and ice).

 Reply to topic    

daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3213
Location: Springfield

5/16/18 11:44 AM

Peloton and CVT

I live in the land of 8 lane, 10 lane highways. It is not unusual for a couple of semi-trailers to be pacing each other and a car or two sitting fat and happy along side.

They are amazed at the wide open vista ahead. "Look Mabel, there is no traffic today!"

Obviously their rear view mirrors are in mint condition from never being used. But would they care about the traffic behind them anyway?

So I'm trapped.
Pack mentality, get to the front, bridge the gap.
Plus it's just freaking safer to be out of the shoulder-to-shoulder, know what I mean?

Hypothetically: My car (not CVT) has a manual mode so I find an opening or two, hit 3000 RPM, 3500, suddenly I'm home free. For a while at least.

Yes, a hypermiler will relish the draft. #humor

So how does CVT fit in?

Frankly, I'm a proponent of the 'accelerator can be a safety device too' theory. But I also think the idea of CVT is great in the grand scheme.

 Reply to topic     Send e-mail

Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16738
Location: Portland, OR

5/16/18 11:51 AM

"disable the anti-lock brakes and traction control"

OK, to each his/her own. Personally I'd rather it take longer to stop that one wheel catch traction and spin the car around. :)

My experience with traction control is 180^ your across a lot of cars I'd say.

Is your car AWD, I see you said your better 1/2 has a Subaru. I can't remember what 'your car' is. Although I bet it has been disclosed before in our car threads.

Manual Shift: I also like "actually driving" the car on the occasions I do drive [usually to go for a bike ride start].

And the manual makes for the feel of actually doing that for me. ;) Although the CR-V CVT seems to do a good job of retaining throttle response, CVT lag aside. Not so much the Fit CVT with the 1.5 VS the CRV 2.4 motor. the 6 speed fit was WAY more responsive IMO. Just was not in the cards. But hey, I get the 6k mile AWD CR-V outta the deal. ;) [Still have the Voyager 2.5 5 speed stick as well]


Last edited by Sparky on 5/16/18 12:59 PM; edited 2 times in total

 Reply to topic     Send e-mail

daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3213
Location: Springfield

5/16/18 11:51 AM

BTW

I get it that this forum doesn't have hypermilers. Maybe people who appreciate a good run at excellent mileage, of course, but not dogmatists who are steadfastly unaware of driving conditions. Let me get that said and out of the way!

 Reply to topic     Send e-mail

Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16738
Location: Portland, OR

5/16/18 12:51 PM

"hypermilers"

The closest I got was the Prius rental for 7 weeks while they waited for rear uni-body parts from GM on the 2013 Equinox to exist at the body shop.

I was continually distracted by the display stealing the most money back from the oil industry...

 Reply to topic     Send e-mail

Jesus Saves
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 1131
Location: South of Heaven

5/16/18 1:30 PM

> Without identical vehicles to compare, it's difficult to say which would give me > better mileage.

I gave one example of the same model car (Nissan Cube), cvt vs manual. You can find many other examples by going to a website called fuelly.com. As for "me", I do not get what makes your diving so special to differentiate from the driving population. If one does not know how to properly drive a manual or cvt equipped car, then surely fuel economy will suffer.

Cars, of all types handle so well, now, the limiter is not the car I am driving, but other drivers out on the road that do not assess risks very well and drive like asshats.

 Reply to topic    

Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16738
Location: Portland, OR

5/16/18 1:34 PM

"drivers out on the road that do not assess risks very well and drive like asshats"

High per capita stats here as far as that goes I can tell you!

 Reply to topic     Send e-mail

PLee
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 3608
Location: Brooklyn, NY

5/16/18 1:56 PM

Pet peeve - left lane hogs. On three lane interstates in the NYC metropolitan area, more often than not the right lane is the most open and fastest moving of the three.

 Reply to topic    

dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6037
Location: Maine

5/16/18 2:18 PM

If it becomes problematic

You could call it the Shit Fit.

 Reply to topic    

dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2505
Location: hillbilly heaven

5/16/18 2:30 PM

Does a CVT equiped vehicle have the same engine tuning as an auto or manual? My understanding is that with a CVT they can optimize the torque/power/economy curve within a narrow RPM range.

Manual transmission drivers prefer a broad power curve so there is good power avaiable in more gears more of the time.

I find an automatic/CVT too hard to drive as its hard not to push in the clutch at a stop. Manuals only here.

 Reply to topic     Send e-mail

Steve B.
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Posts: 699
Location: Long Island, NY

5/16/18 3:47 PM

The 2017 Subaru Outback CVT, works very well, certainly better then the 4 spd. auto on the 2011 Forester I owned. Maybe 2 mpg better on the OB, which weighs 350 lbs more.

The Subaru CVTís are as refined as you can get, so Iíve read. It certainly has little acceleration lag others have described, though Iíve the 2.5 engine so itís not a BMW. Better then any other Subaru Iíve owned. As well you can run it in sport mode so get paddle shifters to make it run like a manual. I rarely do.

 Reply to topic    

Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4170
Location: Nashua, NH

5/17/18 5:56 AM

The Subaru CVT is certainly more pleasant to drive than any auto, but the paddle shifter mode is pretty much a joke so we never bother with it. Her car does get good mileage, so I'm certainly not disputing that the CVT works as advertized

Regarding ABS and TCS, they are flat out dangerous in extremely low traction conditions like ice and snow. First off, they completely eliminate your ability to feel the road surface conditions, something I've come to rely on after 44 winters in NH.

ABS simply will not stop the car when it's extremely slippery. It will not allow wheels to lock and dig into the surface or for snow to pile up in front of them, both of which help to reduce stopping distances. The feeling of utter helplessness as your car continues forward unabated while you stand on the brake pedal is friggin' terrifying!

Likewise TCS prevents wheels from spinning (even slightly) and digging through snow and slush to the pavement underneath where they can get traction. After a few incidents of attempting to pull out at intersections and having the car just creep forward at a glacial pace while cross traffic was bearing down on me convinced me that whatever minor benefit provides TCS isn't worth the risk.

Pulling the ABS/TCS fuse was like a breath of fresh air. I could feel the road again and actually control the car with the brake and gas pedal when the roads were slick. Now that winter has passed, I've put the fuse back in, since both systems can be helpful on dry and wet pavement and you don't have the issues that you do on extremely slippery surfaces.

 Reply to topic    

Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16738
Location: Portland, OR

5/17/18 8:01 AM

" Her car does get good mileage, so I'm certainly not disputing that the CVT works as advertized"

Well, in an alternate reality a little higher up in this thread... It kinda seemed a lot like disputing, to me anyway.

Just saying...


I gotta stop the ... thing, now that I see DT does it. ;(

 Reply to topic     Send e-mail

Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4170
Location: Nashua, NH

5/17/18 10:57 AM

What I said was that I'm not convinced that a CVT would get me better mileage than a manual, but unfortunately I have no way to test that. I never said that they didn't work as advertised and I even indicated that I like them better than typical automatics.

I wonder how well CVTs sell in Europe, where gas prices are crazy high. If they actually got better fuel economy, one would think that they'd be selling like hotcakes. From what I've seen, manual transmissions still overwhelmingly dominate that market.

 Reply to topic    

Jesus Saves
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 1131
Location: South of Heaven

5/17/18 11:12 AM

> If they actually got better fuel economy, one would think that they'd be selling like hotcakes

You mean like VWs and Audis, until they realized that the wool was pulled over their eyes with clean-diesel and false fuel economy reportings.

Seriously, they do not sell like hotcakes because Europeans do not sit in/tolerate traffic, on a regular basis, as much as Americans do and the Japanese, where gas is priced much higher and CVTs are very common.

My 1st car I drove was a stick. Many years later and much more congested roads in the NYC metro area where I still live, there's no freaking way I would regularly drive or own a manual (..in a car w/ less than 10 cylinders).

Maybe if I lived in your neck of the woods, with emphasis on woods, I would...assuming you could still find a car of interest equipped w/ that option...there's fewer and fewer with each passing year.

 Reply to topic    

Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16738
Location: Portland, OR

5/17/18 11:31 AM

Brian, tongue in cheek more than calling you out. ;) Little devil was sticking me in the ear from my shoulder.

But your language as JS pointed out was what I was intimating you had intimated. ;)

But I am OK with listening to what you meant VS what you said. [nutha poke, in case you missed it]

I guess you have not ran a tank though the Subaru, perhaps one day...

CVT wise, I can say I have noticed what I consider usually low RMP average as far as the programing employs on all 3 CVTs we have [2] and the 2015 now gone. Is the Subaru similar?

Fit 6 speed wise: I surely would average higher RPM overall, guess by a lot. In fact on the 6 speed test drive Brian [sales guy] at a point said something when I was JRA in 4th at a bit over 3k. I was in a medium traffic flow on a by-pass and wanted to have throttle response of that RPM range in the 1.5 mill. Higher RPM more air/gas sucked up and pumped out, can't argue that point.

My impression from driving these few CVTs is that they are programed specifically for this t get the numbers. The CRV 2.4 has way more torque than the Fit 1.5. I suspect I's always wished I had got the stick. But that is moot and I am not driving it.

 Reply to topic     Send e-mail

Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 4170
Location: Nashua, NH

5/18/18 6:46 AM

I shift at relatively low revs unless I really need to get moving and I get into as high a gear as possible, as quickly as possible. I almost never even bother to use 4th gear, as my typical shift pattern is 1, 2, 3, 5. Between that, coasting down hills when it won't reduce my speed and shutting off the engine at lights, I get great mileage.

 Reply to topic    

Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 16738
Location: Portland, OR

5/18/18 9:51 AM

Yeah, i always skip gears when JRA with the manual. And put it in neutral on descents or coast up to stops in neutral et al.

 Reply to topic     Send e-mail


Return to CyclingForum Home Page CYCLING TECH TALK FORUM
           View New Threads Since My Last Visit VIEW THREADS SINCE MY LAST VISIT
           Start a New Thread

 Display posts from previous:   


Goto page Previous  1, 2  
Last Thread | Next Thread  >  

  
  

 


If you enjoy this site, please consider pledging your support

cyclingforum.com - where cyclists talk tech
Cycling TTF Rides Throughout The World

Cyclingforum is powered by SYNCRONICITY.NET in Denver, Colorado -

Powered by phpBB: Copyright 2006 phpBB Group | Custom phpCF Template by Syncronicity