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Update on the P6 Hiflex post, + Tranz-X Antishock Stem
 

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

6/26/17 5:36 PM

Update on the P6 Hiflex post, + Tranz-X Antishock Stem

Liking the P6 better than the Domane rear ISO, which moves just a little more than I like frankly. Switching bikes make it more noticeable of course. ;) But maybe I am getting more leverage on the seatpost with the 25mm offset topper [shorter bike]?? Madone has 0? offset, cockpit on both same. [56.7CM VS 58.6 TT] Shorted Stem and bar reach on the Madone etc.

The Hi-Flex Syntace P6 seems to move about 1/2 as much, and I think I prefer it. [due to my weight currently?]

So I decided to try something to calm the front of the Madone a bit, aluminum steer tube et al. I also had put on EC90 fat carbon handle bars when I built it up, kinda wish I hadn't. ;)

Ordered a Tranz-X Antishock Stem -7 Deg only, no flipping due to the way it moves. I did not think of it much when, ordered it, style graphics etc. But it is very close looks wise to the P6 Post with Matt black and red and white minimal graphics. Looks really nice on there actually...

I tossed it on and just took the Madone for a spin in our sub-division. Which needs repaving badly. Immediately noticeably it being muted a bit.

After I got back from a Domane jaunt and the notice was in the mailbox. The PO is a mile from the house... Else I may have ridden the Madone instead of the Domane to try it out.

Going to trek into Portland tomorrow for a better appraisal.





Last edited by Sparky on 6/29/17 10:29 AM; edited 1 time in total

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

6/28/17 3:21 PM

Did a real ride, this stem works pretty darn well. I'd say the brutish feel I have been attributing the the AL steerer and Madone front end is sufficiently negated. To my liking anyway. ;)

Guess I am going to find out how long the elastomer-ish sleeve service life will be. ;)

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walter
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 4391
Location: metro-motown-area

6/28/17 8:32 PM

do you notice the movement in an appreciable way, beyond the shock damping?

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

6/28/17 8:48 PM

"notice the movement"

Comparatively, the 1" threaded fork on my Reynolds 753 Frame with 25.4 / 200 gram bars and a Ti quill stem moves quite a bit more. I mean if you stand next to it and yank and bank on it [them].

So no, don't notice movement of the TranzX. The stem I took off was a FSA carbon wrapped, and carbon wrapped stems are not known for stiffness. Choose it for that reason. The bars don't seem to move more when yanked/banked on. But the dampening seems very good to reiterate. Like you let some air out of the tire pretty much.

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dddd
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3345
Location: NorCal

6/29/17 3:09 PM

I hope that another of my speculative predictions doesn't jinx anything, but I think that right now we are starting to see much long-overdue development in the area of cockpit isolation.
Owing to the more-rigid nature of road bike disc-brake forks, isolation will have to be moved up toward the rider, with devices such as this stem or the isolator suspension that Specialized puts atop the steerer on their current Roubaix.
On the off-road side, many mtb'ers choose hardtails for their lower cost, lighter weight and simplicity of setup and maintenance. So with the costly sliding architecture already in place on all of the dropper posts out there, suspended dropper posts should become popular. I bought a very basic ($100) and barely-sealed KS dropper post for my Aluminum Huffy hardtail, and curiously enough this one seems to be the first dropper on the market to offer such a shock-absorbing feature.
I look forward to future development of elastomers with a better ratio of compression vs. rebound damping ratio, which can't come too soon, and to the development of bikes that achieve a good balance in their front and rear flex characteristics.
It does seem that ever-bigger tire sizes continue to fill in for such developments though, so if lighter, more-aero and widened rim/tire combo's continue to advance we will have less need for such supplementary isolation technologies.
On that note, what are the chances that the current 700c road rim diameter will forever continue to support the perceived ideal balance of ride quality, weight, aero drag and rolling resistance?
To address Walter's question, I used a Pro-Flex hybrid bike off road for several years, which featured a pivoted rear suspension and a single-pivot Flex-Stem. Anyone I ever let ride that bike immediately commented on the twisting flex afforded by the bushings not keeping the bars quite perpendicular to the stem's quill, yet I didn't notice it all since I had become accustomed to it.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

6/29/17 5:26 PM

"but I think that right now we are starting to see much long-overdue development in the area of cockpit isolation"

Public wanted stiff stiff stiff, bikes & front ends but then decided [once we got to 1-1/2" bearings] these plastic bikes are pretty brutal for the non pro racer to endure.

So we spend a decade making shit stiffer...

In 2000 when I got my 1st Strong and 1-1/8" HeadTube / SteerTube I was happy over the 1" stuff on previous bikes. With big bikes and long steer tubes and stiff steel you had a 2+lb fork. ;) 1-1/8" carbon forks easy under 1 lb even early on. Later, well... my Scott Addict fork is in the 300s as was the SiX-13 CADO Premium Plus.

But even then I got tired of the AME straight Alpha fork, and put an HSC3 on. And my AME was standard stiffness steer-tube/rooting. They had stiffer options as well.

I knew we were in for trouble when tapered forks came onto the scene. ;) No problem, we will ISO decouple and charge even more to fix too stiff...

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5096
Location: Nashua, NH

6/30/17 5:18 AM

I don't think there's any great conspriracy...

...to make poor design choices, then charge us to fix them. Rather, I think it's a combination of the industry learning how best to utilize carbon fiber and the "greying" of the marketplace. Those of us who like and can afford higher-end bikes aren't getting any younger and we're placing more of an emphasis on comfort, without going back to flexy, inefficient bikes. To steal a term from Canyon, "VCLS" (Vertically Compliant, Laterally Stiff) has become the order of the day. Whether that's achieved through frame design, suspension or a combination of the two, it's here to stay and I'd say it's a change for the better.

The Trans-X stem looks interesting to me, but not for the road, for my 'cross/gravel bike. I get enough compliance on the road from larger tires (25's) at lower pressure (~70/80 psi). I was looking at Redshift's ShockStop stem and the StaFast suspension stem too, but unfortunately none of these three options are made in the 130mm length I need. StaFast even had the nerve to try to convince me that a 105mm stem was long enough for anyone, which shows how little they understand about bike fit. Fortunately, the Niner has huge tire clearance so I can run really fat rubber on wider rims and get more cushion that way.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

6/30/17 4:01 PM

Are you suggesting I was suggesting there was a conspiracy? I wasn't, or least not meaning to. Just the progression of the tech, agreed...

I shouldn't complain too much, I am usually second to the cool aide stand. ;)


EDIT: did a Club ride with the Madone with TranzX stem. We traversed some pretty shitty roads and construction zones edging Portland after passing PDX etc..

Note: not to mention the Air Guard [as we went by PDX] had 4 jets in a row rotating out at extreme attack angle and full after burners. That is some cool sheit! Last guy flip flopping barrel roles etc.

I am satisfied for the $70.00 shipped this stem cost. I hope wear of the liner/elastomer does not change the dynamics of the muting properties, or have it start clicking or popping.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6884
Location: Maine

7/2/17 2:44 PM

Movement, damping etc.

With my Domane (which is different than Sparky's) I can say that I notice no rear movement at all, along with excellent shock damping. I'm sure it moves, but there is nothing noticeable to me or that affects my pedaling. Maybe there is a little initial front dip when it hits a large bump, but nothing bothersome and no follow up oscillations.

Today I took it up the beloved Puke Hill from the Dempsey Challenge, a bottom gear grunt fest, and the bike was solid as a rock and tracked straight up the hill despite some desperate pedal strokes (all seated). So for my $ this bike does everything well while providing better shock absorption with 26 tires than my cross bike with 33s. I tend to think the combo of front and rear is what does it - I don't think rear alone would be nearly as effective.

And while as I posted in another thread I rode really sh*tty last week, today I did a quite hard ride, and thought I did the hard climbing as well or at times better than in the past. So to me that means my leg is all the way back for all practical purposes, and maybe I'm coming into some kind of form after this effed up year. Which would be good as I have some tough rides coming up like D2R2, which I've been vacillating about actually doing. Endurance is also a question.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

7/2/17 4:11 PM

To be clearer maybe, I only notice it on hard hits. Same with the P6, but on said hard hits it seems to move less, subjective of course.

The front on the Madone now feels about the same as the tuned Domane carbon steerer up front. Looking forward to trying the next version in a RSL.

Dan, yours is the slide adjustable seatpost ISO, yes? Have you diddled the position and where is it now?

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6884
Location: Maine

7/2/17 4:24 PM

Rear ISO

Yes, mine is the adjustable. It is set about in the middle, I haven't touched it - it is fine on smooth pavement and washboard dirt. I'm not sure it is that different from the rear suspended Serottas (Hors Cat and Ottrott) I rode for 15 years - I think it is the addition of the front suspension that makes the big difference.

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