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Shimano comes thru with support, sorta
 

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greglepore
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1576
Location: SE Pa, USA

3/29/17 7:31 AM

Shimano comes thru with support, sorta

So, I just had my second rd failure with first generation di2 , 7970. For those not in the know, this is a problem because the wiring for first gen is not compatible with anything after, and new rd7970s aren't available except as nos, and they all fail eventually, either losing indexing or dying. Plus, they're over $600. First world problems, I know.

Shimano didn't care for the longest time, but last fall released a run of the new DA 9070 derailleurs indexed to shift 10spd (they also released a run of Ultegra 10s, but they don't have the wiring issue). The DA stuff, called rd7970A, comes with a "magic box" that translates the 4 wire first gen connector to the new two wire system.

But, Shimano USA has decided there's either not enough profit to stock it or something else, as you can't get one in the good ole USA unless, so I 've been told, you can prove you bought the original system new from Shimano. My bike is a 2012 Cannondale gifted to me, so no go. I had a seemingly useless otherwise fine DA group.

But, the goodies are available in Eurozone it seems. Ordered one on line from hollandbikeshop.com for a little over $500, and it showed up 5 days later(!). Works like a charm. I suspect that I could upgrade to 11 spd now using just the rd, but the cost is prohibitive as I'd have a 10spd 9070 rd for which there is no secondary market.

Anyway, yea Shimano, boo Shimano USA.

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dfcas
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 2376
Location: hillbilly heaven

3/29/17 1:22 PM

I guess I'm glad you found one but it truly sucks to pay $500 for a rear derailleur. Hope this one doesn't fail.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 15729
Location: Portland, OR

3/29/17 2:27 PM

Yeah, that is an ouch to be sure. Not having any path at all being one more so.

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Dave B
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 4511
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

3/29/17 3:39 PM

Every time I read about DI2 or ESP or other electronic shift system I'm so grateful for my 10-speed mechanical drivetrains.

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Nick Payne
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 2292
Location: Canberra, Australia

3/29/17 7:59 PM


quote:
Every time I read about DI2 or ESP or other electronic shift system I'm so grateful for my 10-speed mechanical drivetrains.

I was reading an interview with the current leader in the Indian-Pacific Wheel Race, Kristof Allegaert, and he stated that he uses mechanical shifting because he has enough things to contend with without having to worry about his gears karking it during a several thousand kilometre race due to flat batteries.

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Craig
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 499

3/29/17 10:37 PM


quote:
Every time I read about DI2 or ESP or other electronic shift system I'm so grateful for my 10-speed mechanical drivetrains.


Hear, hear.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 15729
Location: Portland, OR

3/29/17 10:46 PM

Every time I read about it I had to have it. Now it is on the Addict it is the bike I want to ride first. Even with the new Project One Madone in the stable.

So far my only problem was when I put on the climber switch. I accidentally taped the E-wire loop for the right shifter when I ran the remote wire. The loop is there so if the shifter moves down on a hard bump or drop the wire does not come unplugged.

Well, I did a hard landing on a speed bump bunny hop and had a 34/50 with a 15 in the back for a bit. But that was user error, fixed it up at home...

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 5764
Location: Maine

3/30/17 2:41 AM

Love my e-tap

Of course I've only shifted it in the box and on a trainer....

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dddd
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3151
Location: NorCal

3/30/17 3:57 PM

The attraction to Di2

While obviously there is no functional need for electronic shifting, I detect that there is a curiosity in people wanting to try it, maybe also to jump onto another futuristic fad before it cools off. I myself quite like the wireless look of the new SRAM system and it's ease of installation, while an indefinite service interval would be yet another attraction.
Case in point, a gal with our club has twice brought her SRAM Force-equipped bike to me for problems with A) the chain dropping upon downshift to the 34t ring, and B) failure to shift up quickly to the big ring.
I explained immediately that the front shifter's cable absolutely needed some kind of adjuster in order for the adjustment to be sufficiently accurate, not that this was the root cause of her chain-drop issue.
She had asked, each time, whether the new electronic shifting system would fix her shifting problems, and both times I said that it was more than overkill tying to fix the shifting problems that way.
On this morning's ride, I heard her say that she was now going to be bringing it into the local shop to have a Di2 system installed, and I wondered if this was the same shop and mechanic who didn't bother to install any front shifter cable adjuster when she first had her expensive new frame built up.
I at this point recalled her once saying that she didn't want to have me install an adjuster before talking with her shop's mechanic, as if it might offend them, so I guess this "mechanic" might be the same person who built her bike up with no adjuster and who has now closed the deal on the pricey new Di2 install.

(Sigh)

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 3747
Location: Nashua, NH

3/31/17 11:06 AM

Frankly Greg, I'm shocked...

...that Shimano did anything whatsoever to remedy your situation. Their historic attitude has been "Buy our expensive shit and once it's out of warranty, you're on your own. And don't even think about asking for repair parts!"

I wonder if it was done under threat of legal action in Europe? They have pretty decent consumer protections.

As for making the jump to electronic shifting, I just can't justify upgrading my current mechanical groups while they're still working fine. Getting 11 speed isn't a compelling reason because I can't get the gearing I want (I don't need a 12 tooth cog and certainly don't need an 11). The prices of electronic drivetrains are pretty insane compared to mechanical and the stuff weighs more as well. I just can't get past that, so I guess I'll hang onto my money and put it toward cycling vacations instead.

Perhaps when I build up a new gravel bike, I'll consider SRAM eTAP, since I can use an MTB crank to get usable gearing with an 11 or 12 in the back.


Last edited by Brian Nystrom on 4/1/17 10:08 AM; edited 1 time in total

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greglepore
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1576
Location: SE Pa, USA

3/31/17 11:52 AM

Shimano did nothing for me, I had to jump through some hoops.

I believe that they did it because the failure rate of 7970 rear derailleurs is shocking. As in probably the majority of them. I don't see a lot of these bikes, but the three that I have personal experience with have all died, and ebay is full of dead derailleurs with the same issue. I don't think Shimano wanted the backlash of the consumers of its flagship group going on social media to complain.

Campy is not much better in this era, if a modern shifter dies the repair is to buy a new complete body.

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Rickk
Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Posts: 491
Location: Montreal

4/1/17 7:57 AM

I'd agree re. "Campy is not much better in this era"

:(

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 3747
Location: Nashua, NH

4/1/17 10:07 AM

Well...that sucks!

I wasn't aware that Campy had made a major change in their parts policy. I dug around online and couldn't find any European sources either, so I guess this must be a global policy. It looks like I'll just keep using my 10 speed stuff until parts are no longer available.

SRAM apparently still sells all of the bits for their products, so eTAP is looking even better now.

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