12/7/16 8:52 AM

Question for Campy experts - who may have already gone down this route.

My 1980s mostly SR Campy equipped, Marinoni built, Columbus SL bike is my daily commuter for past 10 years. Bike is almost Bomb-proof in Montreal, especially considering pot holes / weather, and many bikes touching/hitting each other on bike racks at the hospital I work at.

However the BB is the weak link, notably considering our weather/salt/grit etc.

Have changed the original Ti BB spindle to steel several times throughout years - due to scoring, as well as cups once.

Decided to try a sealed cartridge BB this time - but many opinions re Shimano style JIS UN square taper BBs vs other ISO styled (Origin8 for example) vs certain sites saying NOT to put a Veloce 115 symmetrical BB/spindle on this old school "assymetrical" style BB so as not to mess with the SR crankset's chainline.

SR 42/52 crankset with supposedly an assymetrical 115 axle is what I have presently. English threaded BB shell.

Not really interested in spending $$$s for a Phil Woods or SKF sealed BB for this daily commuter.
Just looking for a hard working, mule-style BB, which will get me through at least a couple seasons. Which BBs (and sizes) would be recommended?

Many thanks

12/7/16 11:15 AM

Not really interested in spending $$$s for a Phil Woods or SKF sealed BB for this daily commuter.

Are you saying your means of transportation to your source of income is anything but your most valuable bike? </humor>

12/7/16 12:13 PM

campy makes their sealed/cartridge centaur BB with 115mm asymmetrical spindle and ISO/campy tapers. i use this BB on all but 1 of my nuovo/super record cranks.

there is also a symmetrical 111mm option for c-record -- which i use across-the-board, too.

fwiw...i would *ONLY* use a JIS spindle after your campy cranks are worn to the point they bottom out on ISO/campy BB spindles.

12/8/16 2:38 PM

Just wondering, where/how you found out that this 115mm Centaur bb is asym(?).

If it's for a triple it makes sense, but otherwise it would be the first in a very long time from Campag that was not symmetrical.

Nothing wrong with a symmetric bb though, as long as the spindle length is sufficient. I don't really ever try to make one crankarm/pedal stand out further than the other, except in the case of certain triple setups with a relatively wide Q-factor.

As for using the super robust and cheap Shimano cartridge bb's, the units that are shorter than 119mm are all symmetrical, and the different taper adds about 2mm effective length to EACH END of the spindle, so acts 4mm longer overall compared to any pre-cartridge-era Campag bb of the same measured/published length.

Campag cartridge bb's are genuinely ISO taper and thus very slightly smaller yet ( effectively acting about 5mm shorter, overall), than JIS/Shimano.

The best thing I've found to do is to simply test-fit a presumed replacement, and if it clearances everything and engages the tapers well, while maintaining a good chainline, it's going to be fine. I keep a box of new, used, and even worn-out cartridge bb's handy for this very purpose.

If you have one of these (pictured) calipers, comparative taper-width measurements can be made as shown, as well as the useful method of fixing the caliper's opening with the set screw and then comparing how far that the caliper's opening will then slide up each spindle's tapers. This tells you how much more or less effective spindle length that a different taper might impose on your bike's chainline.

12/8/16 2:58 PM

Walter - I was going to ask the same question re. where that black, modern (assymetrical) cartridge was available from? All those Centaur cartridges I've noticed on the 'net seem to specify they're symmetrical and wont work for old Super Record cranksets.

Perhaps a symmetrical one (which spindle length?) will also be able to be fitted by using a spacer?

I can always take the bike to Cycles Marinoni - the Campy supplier and Campy guru around here but he's almost an hour's drive away and their best mechanic left for greener pastures.

I don't think the crankset's mounting hole has already been "stretched" via improper over torquing when mounting/removing over the years, hence requiring a JIS BB now.

I guess I'll leave it with the Shimano expert bike shop/mechanics/owners near me - who dabble a bit in Campy also. They'll mix n match with the bunch of BBs lying around their shop for me (as dddd reccomended and measure with calipers if needed) .... unless Walter has a secret source for an assymetrical 115mm Centaur cartridge!

;)

12/8/16 3:14 PM

quote:

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Are you saying your means of transportation to your source of income is anything but your most valuable bike?

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12/8/16 4:32 PM

...i just run a ~2-3mm spacer under the fixed-cup for perfect offset to the drive side for SR/NR cranks...VOILA!

Last edited by walter on 12/8/16 4:45 PM; edited 1 time in total

12/8/16 4:33 PM

Even if the symmetrical(?) 115mm Centaur bottom bracket were perhaps slightly short on the drive side, one can still use a 1 or 2mm spacer under the fixed cup flange to move it over!
And like Walter stated, most of the time there is still plenty of clearance and good (if not better!) chainline with the Centaur cartridge installed without any spacer at all. I never presume that an older crankset has a stretched internal taper, either, usually they don't.

12/8/16 8:02 PM

@Rickk - I have an ISO taper 115mm Phil Wood BB in one of my parts boxes that's seen some use but is in good condition - bearings still feel silky smooth. As I no longer have any square taper Campagnolo cranks, and doubt that I'll ever acquire any, you can have it for the cost of postage. It can't be used with JIS taper cranks as the shoulders of the taper bottom out on the crank. You'd need to buy the mounting cups for it, as I reused them on another Phil BB.

E-mail me at nickDOTpayneATinternodeDOTonDOTnet if you're interested.

12/9/16 10:18 AM

A "sealed" bottom bracket won't give you better service (it just uses a premanufacturered bearing). I'd suggest continueing to use the old style.
They will continue to work well, even when pitted, for years and years.

Modifications, 1) get stainless 1/4" loose balls and replace the caged bearings with the loose balls, 2) use a low viscosity waterproof marine grease (like Lucas NLGI#2 or similiar) and really pack the bearings ( you can't use too much grease), retain the knurled Nouvo Record cups that thread water out,
3) slip an "o" ring over the spindle between the arm and the cup for use in slop. It will add some resistance to the bottom bracket, but in a failsafe in snow, slush and slop.

You can re-lap worn old parts with toothpaste.

Sugino Mighty Competition parts are interchangable with Nouvo Record/Super Record and are available on e bay for little cost. I started racing in 1973 and we used the Sugino parts interchangeably with the Campagnolo parts.

12/9/16 3:23 PM

Sugino Mighty parts certainly aren't as easy to find as Campagnolo parts, but sometimes get mixed in with cheap clearance stuff that can be had for a few dollars.

You can lap damaged bearings, but why would you want to? Once the hardened layer is damaged or removed the bb will need frequent readjustment since the base metal is now being worked over.

"Sealed" is indeed a relative term. Exposed cartridge dust shields are easily flooded by water-born contamination, but even Shimano's cheaper cartridge bb's have always fought above their weight in terms of having sophisticated labyrinth sealing that is well researched and proven in the world of off-road riding.

Seriously, even an old 110 or 113mm JIS bottom bracket of any type can be a good candidate worthy of a test-fit using the old Campag cranks. I've done the same with my Peugeots and their hard-to-source Stronglight 118mm ISO spindles, even managed to thread an English-threaded Shimano UN71 cartridge bb into one old bike's Swiss metric threaded bb shell, and knowing I will likely never have to service that bb ever again.

12/9/16 4:36 PM

Swiss is just French thread with the drive side threaded in reverse.

We always just ran a set of English taps into Allegro s and Cilo s. The English is just a hair bigger and cuts good threads. Now they all just take English bottom brackets.

12/9/16 7:04 PM

quote:

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slip an "o" ring over the spindle between the arm and the cup for use in slop. It will add some resistance to the bottom bracket, but in a failsafe in snow, slush and slop.

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12/10/16 9:53 AM

Thanks Nick - if I had the Phil Woods cups, your generous offer wouldve made sense, although after factoring in the time of finding and cost of PW cups (and perhaps their installation tool), it'll end up costing more than a new Campy bb.

@Anthony - yup I'm aware that "sealed cartridge bb" is somewhat of a misnomer :)

In the end, will leave the bike at mechanic - with a link to this thread - and let them figure out the best scenario - which will likely be Centaur 115 mm bb (symmetrical) with spacer if/as needed (as per dddd & Walter). If crank opening is too stretched (unlikely) theyll easily fit a Shimano JIS 110 or 112 spindle length bb.

Thanks again to everyone for all the excellent insight and advice!