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sandiway
Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Posts: 4902
Location: back in Tucson10/23/14 12:48 PM |
quote:
front wheel went "whoosh" sideways, but thankfully it was dry and i didnt exceed the grip available when my front tire slid back onto clean asphalt.
I've seen people high-side it when that happens. You did well.
Sandiway
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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC10/23/14 12:54 PM |
quote:
To save it, you'd have to straighten the bike up. But you'll probably run out of road immediately, especially in the northeast. Then it could be a nasty encounter with a ditch or worse still, a tree, which has a pretty good chance of killing you.
Actually in my case, I was leaning far enough over there's no leverage for me to straighten up.
I also recognized instantly I would run out of road even if I can recover from the skid.
Physically, unless the skidded wheel hooks up again right away, the bike is not controllable. The time it takes to regain control is quite often too long for the confined road space in the NE.
[EDIT] I've also experienced similar to Walter. The tire lost and re-gain traction so quickly that I didn't have time to react or over-react.
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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19083
Location: PDX10/23/14 1:02 PM |
On 2 wheels, a skid-lay down to the low side is way better than a high side. Or worse a triple whipping with a high-side at the end. Seen that one too many times..
Last edited by Sparky on 10/23/14 1:08 PM; edited 1 time in total
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walter
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 4391
Location: metro-motown-area10/23/14 1:06 PM |
quote:
I've seen people high-side it when that happens. You did well.
luck. the slide was very short...i never got a chance to get up a head of steam in the lateral plane, grip returned while still within the realm of save-ability.
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JohnC
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1939
Location: Glastonbury, Ct10/23/14 1:28 PM |
quote:
On 2 wheels, a skid-lay down to the low side is way better than a high side. Or worse a triple whipping with a high-side at the end. Seen that one too many times..
Yeah, like Joseba Beloki's famous TdF crash, the one that forced Lance Armstrong off the road, after which he deliberately cheated by cutting across the switchback to catch up with the group he and Beloki were chasing. I'll always remember Beloki's coach jumping out of the car and getting him to stand up, and trying to make him get back on the bike. His femur was broken.
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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19083
Location: PDX10/23/14 2:12 PM |
"His femur was broken."
And in two places too. Bet he hardly felt the wrist and elbow fractures. I still cringe on that one thinking about it. I still hate seeing the picture of him on the ground should it pop up when I am googling various stuff. Eeessshhhh/Yikes etc...
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ErikS
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 8337
Location: Slowing boiling over in the steamy south, Global Warming is real10/23/14 5:44 PM |
I never felt LA cheated on this one. He got lucky and did not crash in the field.
On my first organized metric century, on the first corner leaving I hit a patch of wet leaves with my front wheel. It slipped out in the corner about 3 to 4 inches and I got lucky. The front tire caught and I kept right on going. Little did I know how close I was to angering that one in.
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walter
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 4391
Location: metro-motown-area10/23/14 7:25 PM |
quote:
I never felt LA cheated on this one. He got lucky and did not crash in the field.
Totally agree.
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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19083
Location: PDX10/23/14 8:57 PM |
Totally agree also...
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JohnC
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1939
Location: Glastonbury, Ct10/23/14 9:26 PM |
I always felt he did cheat. Technically, he did, because you're supposed to get back on the road at the same place or not further along the course. They allow plenty of leeway if conditions are difficult, as here where it would have been a steep climb in the grass back up to the road. So a pass on the rule would seem appropriate.
But LA said in the TV interview immediately after the stage that his only thought was not to let that group get away. He cut off so much of the corner that he got back on the road
in front
of the group that he was chasing, even though he had to ride through the bushes. He took a shortcut, deliberately.
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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5101
Location: Nashua, NH10/24/14 5:42 AM |
I have to say "bullshit"
Go back and look at the terrain they were on. He went down an embankment and straight across a field. While he did get to the other side before the group, by the time he got up to the road and back on his bike, he hadn't gained anything. NOBODY at the time protested that this was in any way cheating, but there was a lot of amazement at his ability to remain calm and handle his bike deftly under duress.
Last edited by Brian Nystrom on 10/24/14 5:52 AM; edited 1 time in total
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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5101
Location: Nashua, NH10/24/14 5:51 AM |
Catching a skid is certainly possible, even in corners
However, as others have pointed out, it depends on the circumstances. At high speed or at the limits of tire adhesion, no, it's not likely. However, that's different from riding around a corner on a flat rear tire or catching a minor rear braking or loose surface skid. This is all par for the course off road and those same skills translate to the road, too. One key skill is the ability to get the inside foot out of the pedal in a flash, so you can use that foot for support. Again, this is something that's commonly done intentionally when cornering hard off road, so it eventually becomes second nature and translates to the road.
I'm not saying that April's skid could have been saved, as I have no way of knowing that. I'm just pointing out that a skid in a corner is not an automatic trip to the pavement.
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PLee
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 3713
Location: Brooklyn, NY10/24/14 6:04 AM |
I recovered a rear wheel skid in a sharp right hand turn once. Still not sure how I did it. I was on the inside, next to the curb, during the Five Boro Bike Ride here in New York. Someone cut in front of me while I was turning, at speed. I remember turning my handlebars to the right and my rear wheel skipping about 9 inches to the left. Somehow I stayed upright. Never unclipped. Riders behind me came up and congratulated me on the move.
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mag7
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 888
Location: Lake James, NC10/24/14 8:46 AM |
LOL - now Lance is guilty of "field doping" - where will the ridicule end?
On "saving" the bike with a rear tire going down while in a turn the obvious two variables are how sharp is the turn and how much air is still in the tire.
I was in a group ride around the infamous Charlotte "Booty Loop" diving 25mph into a 90 degree corner with riders all around and suddenly my rear tire starting to come around.
Instinctively I did what I do when driving a car in snow which was to turn my front wheel in the direction of the skid which also raised my center or gravity this putting more down force on the bike and I made it through much to do with the rider to my left giving me the extra few feet of road required to sort it all out.
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JohnC
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1939
Location: Glastonbury, Ct10/24/14 8:33 PM |
Lance
Matter of opinion, I guess. I know no one protested, and the rule on that is usually enforced very loosely. I don't think it's a big deal, and I wouldn't hold my opinion had I not heard him essentially admit that he tried to make up ground. And he did make up ground. The group passed him as he was remounting, but when he got rolling he was closer than he had been before Beloki's crash. It was a very long switchback loop that he cut off.
Not a big deal in the larger scheme of things, and it was a nifty bit of riding through the grass.
EDIT: CORRECTION AND RETRACTION:
I take it all back. I just watched the video again. Armstrong and Beloki were not chasing the group. They were in the middle of it. After the off-road excursion, Armstrong was at the back of the group. He said he didn't want them to get away, but he was with them before.
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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC10/26/14 4:37 PM |
quote:
On 2 wheels, a skid-lay down to the low side is way better than a high side. Or worse a triple whipping with a high-side at the end. Seen that one too many times..
Today swa our club's end of season party. I just found out that spot I crashed on had several previous crashes. So there's something about that curve...
Of the people who laid it down to the low side, everyone seemed to had gotten up and walked away (rode away actually). One woman had no injury (rode again the next day), one had bruises on the side (much like me), one guy had his hand out so was some hand/finger injury but no broken bone.
Only one guy tried to save it. In his own words "I almost got it under control, but then I ran out of roads and crashed into the guard rail". 2 broken vertebrates and some other less serious (comparatively) injuries laid him up for a whole year. He felt he was lucky that he's able to got back on the bike again...
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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5101
Location: Nashua, NH10/27/14 5:48 AM |
Decreasing radius? Camber Change?
It sounds like there is something that's causing people to misjudge their speed on this corner.
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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC10/27/14 7:34 AM |
in my case, I felt it was the nearly flat tire. two riders a head of me made the curve without fanfare
in the case of the guy who broke his vertebrate (and the woman with no injury), both were closing a tiny gap between them and the rider in front right before the turn. so their speed might be just a tiny bit faster the the group who went through safely. so far the riders I got to talk to were all at the end of the group that went through safely. None remember braking either.
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