7/20/14 11:22 AM

Jack Bauer. Garmin Sharp.

New TV with total back light instead of edge back light on the one that got relegated to the Bedroom does not like my phone camera [or visa versa]

But this is scarey to me.

7/20/14 12:30 PM

Also: Kittel's hair gel/style advice to Horner, "um... maybe keep ze helmet on"

7/20/14 5:24 PM

...if any of the riders with crazy descending positions have ever tested them in a wind tunnel to determine if they actually provide any benefit. From casual observation of race footage, they don't appear to descend any faster than other riders around them that are just getting low while staying on the saddle.

7/20/14 5:29 PM

On my more-stable bikes, I often descend off of the saddle like that, only surely not so low in front and with plenty of actual top-tube clearance still in evidence.

I'll check next time how far my knees are behind the front axle, I don't think I'm near that far forward, and my upper-body weight is all on my hands, not on my chest and obviously not on my chamois.

That picture appears to show what can be done at the limit, with rider almost threatening to tip forward about the front axle!

Tipping the lower body forward, along with the saddle (if seated), is the key to achieving a flat back and lowest drag.

7/20/14 5:56 PM

One soft front tire/flat episode ought to cure one from this activity for all time. ;)

7/20/14 8:01 PM

rode for carrera back in the '86 tour and used to descend in a super-aft position. he'd slide off the back of the saddle, hands deep in the drops and arms extended fully with his chest on the saddle. opposite extreme of what this guy is doing.

no idea if it was fast, but it looked cool.

7/21/14 10:31 AM

Anecdotally it should make a difference if you think (I do) that position resembles superman position employed by Graham Obree, Francesco Moser, Chris Boardman which eventually became outlawed by the UCI for the hour record because it was too aerodynamic.

On the other hand, I do think you are correct about cyclists using that position not gaining much ground on others. Perhaps it is due to terminal velocity at play; if so the Projected Area value (e.g. areo position) might not be that significant in the calculation.


On a side note, it is pretty remarkable for the GC leader, one whom has shown good climbing form to have his team attack on the descents. Is that risk taking really a wise move? Or is it a good poker move tactic reasoning that the rest of the contenders may be a bit more skittish taking risks given the # of crashes in the tour and not be as aggressive in pursuit on the descents.

7/22/14 5:12 AM

It makes perfect sense for a good descender to use that to his advantage whenever possible. Anything you can to do make your opponents work harder than you is an advantage. That doesn't mean taking extreme risks, rather just using your superior skill to gain time with little expended effort.

7/22/14 6:31 AM

True, except in this instance he's taking the whole team with him. Even if they are all respectively good descenders, there's got to be a little bit more added risk having a group navigate its way other riders on a descent and keeping together as a group. I don't recall that happening in recent memory.

7/22/14 7:05 AM

It might feel good too. So the relief could be a benefit potentially. I'd crash trying to get back rearward I think. ;)

7/22/14 8:29 PM

My Cervelo S2 won't let me do that. It is not stable enough: i tried it once. That was enough for me.

7/22/14 10:06 PM

7/23/14 3:58 AM

I think that position was pretty common - I tried it a few times, not difficult or unstable.

I liked Urs- badass sprinter. My first Campy bike was an Atala, and he was the guy:

http://cyclingart.blogspot.com/2008/05/atalas-great-rider.html

7/23/14 7:59 AM

urs ZIMMERMANN was a climber.

urs FREULER was a sprinter.

both swiss and very-very tall, but there was probably 30-40lbs difference between the 2 guys!

zimmermann on left, freuler on right:



Last edited by walter on 7/23/14 8:52 AM; edited 1 time in total

7/23/14 8:35 AM

Am I seeing things, or does that old Atala's frame have an extended seat tube?

Ahead of it's time, I wonder who the actual builder was?

Gad, even the head tube is extended, so makes this one a compact frame and with horizontal top tube.

I guess that today's pro frames are so stiff as to allow high speed antics with perhaps less chance of inducing a harmonic "speed wobble", and I've limited my most-aggressive head-first riding position to when I'm riding my most-stable mounts (my 1990's Masi and my Schwinn Varsities).

The aft-of-saddle rider would be quite brave it seems, riding what appears to be a Peugeot-branded Vitus aluminum frame, which were known to be flexy and thus already scary descenders.

7/23/14 8:46 AM

Guess I couldn't get past the "Urs."

DDDD, I think maybe Freuler had his bikes made like that as he was a tall sprinter. I think there is even a "Freuler geometry" that Colnago and Merckx and maybe others used.

7/23/14 9:06 AM

At my girth, I don't need to get too aero to wiz past most others on descents. Just usually on the drops with bent elbow and my chin low I just sail. I don't try to go faster on descents like I used to honestly.
I know I am not going to bounce like I used to, just crack.

7/23/14 4:30 PM

I spun the green Varsity's pedals today up to 44mph with a 50/13 top gear, the bike is as stable as they come and the weight helps, as you say.
It was a nice descent, one that we had climbed hours earlier, and toward the end of our hilly, 45-mile ride. I needed three gels for that ride. Scale said 139.5lbs when I got home (me, not the bike ;-D)!

Zimmerman looks like he could pull 30mph for an hour straight on that wild Battaglin!

I bought a nice 59cm Battaglin with that same color scheme (Carrera) from a 6-ft-tall woman up in the Lake Tahoe region, but it's 7sp Dura-Ace (not the cool C-Record group with those aero shifters as on urz's Battaglin TT bike).

7/25/14 7:15 AM

The negatively sloped top tube is no longer used for time trials because it does not really help with aerodynamics, is rule prohibitive, or is it for some other reason?

7/25/14 8:20 AM

un-matched wheelsizes are prohibited, so that's one factor.

more significantly, i believe the aero-guys proved time and time again that a sloping TT doesnt reduce drag compared to a completely horizontal TT.

modern thinking is to get the HT as low/short as practical, keeping a horizontal TT hidden completely behind it.